Buying advice please

[Rustychain]

I'm hoping i might be able to get some help from forum members. 

I've been offered first refusal on a friend's 2005 A6 Avant V6 diesel (it's also a Quattro). It has a full service history with about 160,000. 

There are no known issues with the car, but apparently it produces smoke if you accelerate hard. 

Could this be the dreaded failed injector issue? Is there any easy way to check? I won't be able to get it professionally tested. 

Thanks in anticipation. I can't afford to buy it and then be landed with a two grand bill! 

[niedzial1983]

Is it 2.7 or 3.0 tdi ?

[Rustychain]

Sorry, it's the 3.0 tdi version (l didn't realise the 2.7 is also a V6).

 

 

[niedzial1983]

Ok so in c6 you have 3 types of 3.0tdi 

2004- 2006 - BMK engine mostly relible but is known from injector problems  and timing chain rattle as the top tensioners are weak 

Late 2006 - 2008 - ASB engine improved injectors and timing chanin issues resolved ( better but not perfect ) 

And then 2009 facelifted 3.0tdi that is an improved unit .

[Rustychain]

Thanks Piotr. 

I'm assuming it's the BMK engine as the car was first registered in 2005. 

I appreciate dark smoke on acceleration could be anything from a split hose to some duff injectors. 

Is there a way to diagnose leaking injectors? I've read about leaving the car to idle for 10 or so minutes and then driving off which will produce smoke if the injectors are playing up?

[Magnet]

Hello Sean,

I guess this will boil down to what the attractive price is that you can by this at. Injectors can be checked via a leak-back test, ( not difficult) but you will need someone to do this for you. You will need to check on the cost of injectors but I would guess you will be talking around £150 each to have these reconditioned - so you will be well on you way to half your £2k without labour. 

If you want this cheap, then you will have to budget for a £2000 additional expenditure or least get someone to estimate the cost of repair before you buy. 

Another point Sean- tighter smoke restrictions from May on?

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[niedzial1983]

4 hours ago, Rustychain said:

Thanks Piotr. 

I'm assuming it's the BMK engine as the car was first registered in 2005. 

I appreciate dark smoke on acceleration could be anything from a split hose to some duff injectors. 

Is there a way to diagnose leaking injectors? I've read about leaving the car to idle for 10 or so minutes and then driving off which will produce smoke if the injectors are playing up?

You need the car to be up tp temperature to check if the smoke is there . Also the car is without dpf so it will smoke :). I have 3.0 tdi asb and on hard acceleration it smokes back a bit . 

Re injectors you can check using vcds to get rough indication but best way to check is to take them out on a test bench.

[Magnet]

Hello Piotr,

So that I can update what bit of knowledge I have, are you really saying all diesels ( including ones correctly maintained and set up) always smoked before the introduction of DPFs then? 

My thinking was that a DPF was what it it says on the can - if filters particles out of the exhaust gas but not necessarily smoke.

You are probably more familiar than I am regarding the pitfalls of removing diesel injectors than I am, but I have worked on the basis of do not attempt to remove them unless you have to. I'm sure your VID check would be great and perhaps better than a leak-back test (done with the injectors in place), so I would have thought that removing them to simply bench test them would not be necessary - either of the above should give a good indication if anything is wrong. 

Kind regards, 

Gareth.

 

[Rustychain]

Thanks for all the responses and thoughts on the car and injectors.

I think it's a good deal - £1,700? Basically the We buy any car price. 

He wants to sell quickly, either to me by tomorrow or it goes to WBAC. Only wish I had a bit more time to consider....

Would it be easy to sell on again if I found there were major problems? 

 

[Magnet]

I guess you are gambling with around £1000 here Sean. If you can't afford to lose that then it might be worth walking away. WBAC will no doubt have made their offer based on the car being sound, and this may well be subject to a decrease if they notice it is smoking. If you want one of these and are good at spannering then it might be a profitable buy. If you have to pay for the spannering then.........?? 

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[niedzial1983]

Whats the reg of the car ?

[Rustychain]

Hi

The reg is LY05 KPE with 150,000 miles (not 160,000 as I mentioned at the start). It's got a full Audi service history and has been owned by my friend from new. It's been used for long journeys ie motorway miles.

I've just been to see the car properly (I've only ever seen it at a distance) and had a test drive. It feels like a very nice and luxurious car to drive, and pulls like a train, especially from the lights.

There are no known problems except what I've now discoverd is actually a white smoke upon hard acceleration, not black as previously mentioned. The car can emit white smoke, but only if it's floored (eg kick down). Audi looked into this a while back and couldn't replicate it. They've recently had a second attempt and were able to replicate it.  They wanted £200 to explore it further and mentioned £3,000 to replace the injectors, so my friend said thanks but no thanks.

The car doesn't burn any oil between services, or at least doesn't need topping up. There is one area of bubbling paint on the near side rear arch which I would get fixed if I bought it.

I've got some breathing space as he doesn't need to sell it by tomorrow. We've agreed that he'll get a confirmed price from the local Arnold Clark which he would then be happy to sell it to me for.

He's also agreed that I can have the injectors tested at my cost which seems reasonable. Any idea how much that might cost? There's a local Bosch specialist I was thinking of using.

Regarding the future, I do all my own spannering (except for welding) so figure it could be a good investment.

Thanks again for all your input on this.

 

[niedzial1983]

Ask them why the car didnt have mot in 2015-2016 and it looks like its been of the road for some time in that period . 

Also check the mot reports for each year as it had a lot of things to be fixed 

[Magnet]

Hello Sean,

You and everyone else now has a fuller picture of this. 

My only comments would be:- 

If you are concerned about how much it's going to cost you to get the injectors checked, then this may be another good reason not to buy it. It's likely to be a fraction of what it will cost to recondition the injector if it/they are found to be in need of servicing.

In a nutshell, if it were me and you want such a car, my positive thinking would be how much cheaper-in-the -end are you going to to find one with a known history/fixable fault? Next thought, if you cannot fix it, how much are you going to lose? That's the gamble! 

Would I be far off the mark in wondering whether this is being looked upon as a short term route to a little profit rather than a longer term car to be retained? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[Rustychain]

Well spotted re the MOT, I'd missed that gap! I will enquire. 

Gareth - Thanks for your considered thoughts.

I'm suppose I'm anxious about buying a new car. I've had my current car for 10+ years (a 17 year old Galaxy) and I know all its faults and quirks. 

I'm not a gambler as such, but recognise that  any second hand car is a gamble and I'm trying to work out the 'odds' with this one.

This definitely isn't about a short term gain. If I buy this it'll be driven until the end of its life. 

I asked about the price of testing so when I phone around tomorrow for quotes I don't get ripped off. I've no idea if testing will cost £50 or £500. I'm hoping it's more like £50 of course. :-)

I'll keep you posted! 

[niedzial1983]

Right so you wont regret after ... i have 3.0tdi . City mpg 25 max , motoway around 40 . 

I love mine as it has lots of power and i dont mind the fuel consumption but if you coming from smaller engine car that might a shock for the wallet . Also road tax mine is £305. I belive bmk motors were above 225g so thats £500 tax . 

[Rustychain]

We only do about 6,000 miles a year, so I'm okay with a lower fuel consumption and was expecting those kinds of figures.

I had been looking at petrol cars (eg Subaru Outback 3.0, Honda Prelude Estate 2.4) so this should be better on the MPG. 

Current tax is £245 on the Galaxy, so £305 would be ok. I'd better just check if it's £500...

[Magnet]

Hello Sean,

Thanks for filling in the useful extra detail. I sense you are hesitant, and to some extent that is a good 'fault'. At the other end, too much hesitation and the game is lost. I too don't gamble, but I just used the analogy to try to question what you views were on the bottom line of being out of pocket.

OK, so you want a long term keeper car - great. If it were me, I would look at the running costs of this model will be and decide if this is what you are prepared to incur. If they are within your expectations then great. If not, forget it, even if was gifted to you. 

If the running  costs etc. are acceptable then you just have to work out what your total budget is to buy such a vehicle. You know what you  expected to pay to buy the car as is, so pardon the simplicity, but you simply subtract this away from you final budget and you have the 'repair fund' budget. To some extent, the final value of the car doesn't matter too much, since you are going to run this until it's scrap, so the economics here is simple.

It might help to look at it like this Sean - what similar vehicle are you going to buy for your final budget which is better, and better known, as this? If you miss it , are you going to be disappointed? My guess is yes. 

Senario:- You've worked out your final budget, you can afford it??  - you are in an auction hall and you have about 3 minutes to decide. It's jump in or stay out time - decide - all the rest will fit into the plan. 

I genuinely wish you good luck with this, but can only suggest not to worry too much about detail. 

Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s. Missing MOT year? My guess - just forgot to get it done between services - happens. I would not be surprised if the MOTs were carried out by the main dealer. They are more inclined to fail a car on a bulb rather than simply changing the bulb during the test or before it leaves the station.