service intervals 2007 A4 AVant SE 1.9TDI - service intervals - age or mileage?

[keith47]

My car is 11 years old but the total  mileage is only 28,000 - current  mileage less than 3000 miles per annum. I try to do minimal short journeys and mainly use it for longer runs (50 miles +). 

According to the Audi service book, a number of additional service items (e.g. cam belt replacement, change brake fluid etc) should be carried out either by age or mileage, whichever comes first. When I first bought the car I was on variable service intervals but then changed to fixed service intervals, which I have continued to use until now.

I had the cam belt, water pump and altenator belt changed after 5 years - the belts that came off the car looked, to me, to be in excellent condition. According to the book, I should now be replacing these again.

I would be interested to hear members views on whether or not the 'age' criteria needs to be strictly adhered to in situations like mine.

[Magnet]

Hello Keith,

I think that your question will be of interest to many owners who (perhaps in retirement for example) cover relatively small mileages. 

In the days when I had hair, - and pre-cambelt-  such cars were serviced once a year, and were considered desirable secondhand purchases due to their low mileage. Indeed, I have a couple of pals who would shudder at the thought of buying anything other than low mileage cars, and I refer to them 'buying speedometers' (well oddometers really). Such cars can often have had a fairly hard life with frequent stop starts, clutch operation, door opening and closing, seat wear from getting in and out etc. etc. Of course, having said that, we now have the stop/start system fitted to our cars - something I dislike, but. Surprisingly to me, our local bus service has a new bus which has this, and everytime it stops to pick up passengers, the engine cuts out! Progress!? 

Anyway Keith, none of this helps you at all. Cambelts and c5 year change on time basis? Yes it's a questionable expense, but spread over 5 years then the cost is peanuts compared with the average motorists fuel bill over the same time. Yes, they are likely be capable of longer service life, but this must be balanced against the (terminal?) cost of a belt failure, and as I indicated earlier, the wear rate and strain on these belts is likely to be aggravated by more frequent starts and the resultant stress than would be the case with higher mileage cars. 

One vitally important aspect to consider if changing on time is the 'quality' of the replacement parts used - particularly the water pump( critical) , since aftermarket ones can fail at relatively low mileages. Not sure what cambelt and pump were fitted last time, and dependent on that information, it may be essential to change again without delay. Just let us know. 

I have known non-Audi (main dealer) cambelts to be on an auction site at fairly high discounts, and when you ask whether these are current manufacture dated stocks, the enquiry goes quiet - the answer probably being that these belts are possibly in excess of 5 years old before they are fitted! 

Perhaps there are some pointers there for you Keith.

General servicing? At 3K/ annum - say every two years (max). 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[keith47]

Many thanks for the advice, Gareth (Magnet). The previous cam belt, altenator belt and water pump were fitted by an official Audi dealership so assume that they were genuine parts.

I have obtained quotes from other nationally recognised, but not Audi, garage chains as these were more economical than the prices quoted by Audi 'on the 'fixed cost' section of their web site. Based on your advice, I will need to check it the other garages would be fitting genuine Audi parts or OEM equivalent parts - if the latter I will need to check for any price increase if I insist on genuine Audi parts being used.

General servicing - I have already adapted that regime (2 years). Thanks for the reassurance on that.

Keith

[Magnet]

Hello Keith,

Thanks for coming back with the additional useful information. 

If it were mine, knowing that a genuine VAG water pump was used last time (number of miles covered since? - very low?) I would be tempted to leave well alone on this and not replace the pump again this time, when the belt and assembly is changed. Subject to it proving serviceable on dismantling.

I appreciate that costs matter, but to me, this most critical of applications job should not be influenced by a 'cost is king' approach. VAG dealers often have promotions on cambelt assembly changes, so well worth keeping an eye out. 

OEM parts? Minefield of a description, and I would simply just not go there unless you really must cut costs, and if that is the case then my only-one exception aftermarket make would be Gates - but I would not use their water pumps if you are going to allow this to be changed. 

OK independents at cheaper rates:- They may say they will use genuine VAG parts (or the horrible term OEM parts) but in reality, you will not have any guarantee that that will be the case - and how do you check? 

In summary, my approach would be to investigate the cheapest price you can get at a main dealer, and if necessary, play one off against the other. In the end, the cost spread over 5 years is not alarming and is probably well worth it on a spend once and wisely basis. Any variance from genuine parts may result in a bit of a saving, but I this assembly decides to break loose then you end up with a beyond -economical -repair car. Worth the risk?? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[keith47]

Many thanks for your further feedback, Gareth.

The belt & water pump changes were made in September 2012 at 18000 miles (current mileage is 28000).

I will discuss your advice with my local Audi dealer and check out prices with other Audi dealerships in the S.E. London area.

Regards,  Keith

[Magnet]

Hello Keith,

With apologies for the potential to bore, but I do better understand your plight when we learn the car has only covered 10K miles since the last main dealer belt and pump change. What I would say is to spend some time in shopping around - I would anticipate there is no rush. 

London area rates? Again it's guess work, but it's fair to believe that London and surrounding areas rates may be higher than most other areas, and perhaps the frequency of promotional deals on cambelt changes may be far less. 

Is it worth trying dealers well out of your area to see what quotes you get there, since it may be beneficial to spend a little more on fuel to save on the cost?  Again, you could ask dealers in your area to keep your contact details on the books incase promotions come along. 

Good luck with it ,

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[keith47]

Thanks for the further advise.

I have obtained a price from an independent garage, which specialises in Audi cars. I have visited their premises and spoken to staff there - they appear to run a good operation.

The price is a bit more than I have been quoted by 2 nationwide chains of garages but less than local Audi dealerships.

The independent garage recommend replacing both the timing (cam) belt and the water pump as this comes as an inclusive kit. They also recommend replacing the alternator belt at the same time, whilst everything is stripped down for the timing belt work. I do not have a problem with this as I have finally accepted that I should have the timing belt changed due to age rather than my low mileage.

They  propose to use Gates parts , on the basis that  they manufacture parts for Audi under the Audi brand name and they have good experience of using these parts in the past.

They did give me an uplifted price for using 'genuine' Audi parts, which was not too much more and still less than Audi dealerships have quoted. However they advised me that if they use the 'genuine' Audi parts and I subsequently have a problem  then I would have to take the car to an Audi dealership to have the problem investigated and resolved.

Before I contact Audi for their comments, I would be interested to learn if any readers of this forum have come across this situation in the past.

I do not want to become the meat in the sandwich, stuck between 2 garages, in the unlikely event of something going wrong (was it a faulty part or the way it was fitted? etc.).

Any advice would be most welcome.

[Magnet]

Hello Keith,

I seems you have been busy doing your homework, and some 'progress' has been made, but personally I have a couple of concerns, but please ignore if my opinions differ from yours. I sense you want to get this job done at the most competitive price - OK using 'quality' components, and although I believe you somewhat respect the importance of the parts used, the bottom line is that you are treating this as a cost-is-King job. It is a critical application not to be dabbled with. 

Gates vs genuine VAG. As I said, Gates belts are fine if there is a genuine need ( should be caps) to spend less money, and I would ask - what is the saving over using genuine parts? Spread that over 5 years and the true saving emerges. Beer money? Again in my opinion the approach potentially falls down at the scene of the water pump. Yes the Gates kit can come with the water pump, but they also do a comparable kit without the water pump, so there is a choice to be made. Potential issues using kit with pump? Answer lies in who makes the water pump which Gates use?  Answer is, we don't know, and I've asked and they (understandably) won't say. My thoughts - probably of Chinese origins. 

Bottom line in my approach is - would I use Gates kits non water pump kits if cost has to be King ? Yes.       Would I use Gates water pump inc. kit? No. 

I would always use main dealer pump only ( def. in caps). 

Not sure about their reference to you being the go between if something goes wrong if you follow this logic and use a VAG pump. Sounds a definite off put to me, and I would steer clear, but it's not my car Keith. 

To box this up, if this were mine I would still do as I initially suggested and find the current best price at an out-of-town Audi dealer, or wait a few months until an offer with them comes along. If you work it out, everything else is based on cost savings only. 

On a best cost basis, it would be interesting to work out the potential depreciation in the car over the next 5 years. Factoring in the saving on this one off cam belt change by using aftermarket parts, and it should show that this saving is a very small % of this and just  not worth the loss of peace of mind if getting this done once and wisely. 

Summary :- Personal opinion - Gates non-water pump kit if (caps) cost is king? Yes.       Gates water pump - No. Main dealer pump? Yes. I- if necessary after such a small mileage. Your garage's comments re VAG pump? Enough for me to draw stumps with them. 

This is simply a one-person's opinion, and I'm sure others will offer different advice.

Also, others will have more knowledge of the frequency of main dealer offers on cam belt changes. 

Final maths:- Divide cost saving by 5 (years). Worth it for best possible peace of mind?? 

Good luck with whatever you decide, but consider the importance of the luck element. 

Kind regards,

Gareth.

 

[keith47]

Hi Gareth - thanks for the further feedback. I think that we are almost on the same page with this issue.

For the relatively small uplift in price quoted by the independent garage for supplying 'genuine' Audi parts vs the Gates equivalent I am comfortable asking them to do the job using Audi parts. 

My outstanding concern relates to what they told me if there was a subsequent problem during the warranty period for the work - i.e. I would have to take the car to an Audi dealership if 'genuine' Audi parts are used.

Can't really see the logic in this - that is why I was asking if any other forum member had come across this before. I will call Audi UK today to seek their comments.

I will also widen my search for Audi dealership prices - so far the ones that I have spoken to all are all quoting the official online fixed price service costs. If I go much further afield it will have be somewhere (by the seaside?) where I can enjoy the rest of the day whilst waiting for the work to be done.

[Magnet]

Hello Keith,

I fear this is going to bore, but here goes:- 

Request independent to use Audi parts rather than aftermarket :-

OK, one option, but I would ask the question, how will you know - with complete confidence - what parts they have actually used? Very important consideration indeed. 

Getting down to the nitty gritty:- What are the independent going to charge you to do the job if they use Audi parts? 

                                                       What is the best price you are being quoted by a main dealer to do the job? 

Any future issues should be addressed to Audi (rather than the independent) if Audi parts are used! 

This where we are on common dissatisfied ground, but I wouldn't waste my time checking this out with Audi.

My advice (for what it is worth) still stands.

What price can you put on peace of mind? 

Kind regards,

Gareth.