2015 A6 Avant 2.0D S-Line Ultra - Timing Belt - When to Replace it

[vuduo2]

Hi,

My car is on 75k miles and I'm wondering when the timing belt is due to be replaced?

[Jim70]

Hi Gerry,

Check your service/owners manual, it does tell you in there. I think it goes with age or mileage, whatever comes up first.

If your in any doubt about it though, I'd always advise to change it anyhow as it can be very costly if it breaks.

Cheers

[vuduo2]

Hey Jim,  thanks a million for getting back to me.

All credit to numptiness, me of course!! , as you suggested, within the service manual it mention's "Replace toothed belt" 2.0TDI models @ 133,000 miles.

A quick google has confirmed "Toothed Belts" & "Timing Belts" are the same.

What I cannot understand is why main dealers are all saying the timing belt is due for replacement at 75,000 miles ( apart from money grabbing reasons)

[Magnet]

Hello Gerry,

I think you are very wise to question the intervals at which the timing belt and it’s assembly should be changed. I would add a couple of points to the helpful information you have now gathered:- 

Change intervals are not based on mileage alone, but on age limits as well, so if you are reading 133k miles, there will be - or at least should be an...’or x years, whichever comes first’ ( where x is generally in the order of 5 to 8 years ). If the handbook does not mention any time limit, then personally I would question its accuracy. I don’t want to put a dampener on your findings, but handbooks can be generic and are obviously not updated with manufacturer’s changing recommendations. Upshot - beware! 133K miles seems on odd figure and doesn’t seem to tie up with an expected round km figure. 

OK, it is understandable that contra advice by main dealers is due to their money grabbing nature, but .....’ all are saying the belt is due for change at 75K miles.....’ might ring some bells, and since the word ALL comes into play, it could be that VAG’s recommendations have indeed changed. Sorry Gerry to cast second thoughts on this, but this is a critical part application and really does boil down to belt (pardon the pun!) and bracers research to avoid catastrophic results. You could try e-mailing Audi UK - giving them your VIN and asking for a definitive up to date (including these words) recommended mileage and age limit for changing. 

Whenever this belt is changed, you should also change the auxiliary belt (driving alternator etc. etc) and it’s tensioner etc. since failure of this belt has potential for wrapping itself around the crankshaft pulley and causing the timing belt to jump teeth - bad news. If (in caps) it is confirmed that the timing belt can run to 133k miles, personally I would be changing the auxiliary belt before this - say at 100k. 

Apologies for cats and pigeons, but....

Kind regards,

Gareth.

Experience is based on making mistakes:- Had a Cavalier from new, which was always serviced according to schedule. Cam belt snapped at 72K miles when recommended change was 75 K. Found out to my cost that Vauxhall had subsequently amended the recommendation to 50K! 

[vuduo2]

Thanks Gareth,  suppose it's better to be safe then sorry.... 

Main dealers mentioned replacing it @ 5yrs or 75k miles , whichever comes first, yet the service book says @ 133k miles.

I'll take your advice though and will email Audi for clarification, and again, thanks for your input

[Magnet]

Hello Gerry,

Indeed, safe not sorry. 

And the book doesn’t mention any time limit? As I said, my feeling is, if it doesn’t, then distrust the book until proved to be correct. 

Good luck, and perhaps you would be kind enough to let the forum know what the ‘official’ limits turn out to be.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[niedzial1983]

60k or 5 years with ever comes first 

[vuduo2]

Ok, here's Audi UK's reply ;

Thank you for your recent email regarding the cambelt on your Audi A6.

I can confirm that The cambelt (also known as the timing belt or toothed belt) is normally located at the front of the engine. The timing belt connects the crankshaft and the camshaft, thus synchronizing engine timing. The camshaft on the cylinder head ensures the regular opening and closing of the valves, so it is necessary for it to turn at exactly half the rate of the crankshaft.

The cambelt also:

•    Drives the injection pump
•    Drives the water pump

Full functionality must be guaranteed in all driving situations throughout its entire service life.

Audi UK recommends a cambelt change interval of five years or 140,000 miles, whichever comes first, for the above vehicle. This is to ensure optimum safety and performance.

The cambelt is one of the hardest-working parts in the engine. Any component working this hard will eventually show signs of fatigue. A worn or damaged belt could become slack or even snap, often causing severe engine damage which is very expensive to repair.

The mileage replacement recommended by Audi AG is not always relevant to conditions experienced by Audi customers in the UK.

Stop-start journeys on congested roads may cause additional wear on parts compared to the optimum conditions experienced in some parts of Europe.

The revised recommendation introduces consistency between retail and fleet and will protect customers with very low-mileage cars from cambelt failure. Cambelts are rubber-based components that can deteriorate over time and it could be many years before these customers reach the recommended mileage interval changes.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with us, allowing me the opportunity to reply. I hope that I have been able to explain the background to the cambelt in your Audi A6 Avant and give you some transparency in this regard. If you would like to discuss the above or have any other queries, please contact me on the details shown below.

Kind regards

 

 

[Magnet]

Hello Gerry,

Many thanks for sharing this definitive reply, and if there is one lesson to be learnt here it is that you can have as many opinions on recommended mileage intervals, as the number of persons you ask! 

Just a couple of comments on VAG’s reply:-

The time limit is within reasonable expectations, but in my opinion ( and this shouldn’t really count) the mileage interval seems rather high, but in your particular case, it has no meaning since your 75K car is unlikely to get near to 140K by the time the car is 5years old and the belt will need changing on the age limit. 

I’m not sure if their .....’the revised recommendation .....’ statement confirms the 140K is the current figure or if this statement has some bum covering element. Not very clear, but.... 

So you can forget about it until next year then Gerry, but when that point comes, I think this job has to be respected for the critical application it is. Personally, I wouldn’t use anything other than VAG parts ( Gates might be an exception but not the water pump). It would be unwise not to replace the water pump, but in my book, never use a cheaper aftermarket one. I would also change the auxiliary belt and tensioner at the same time, since these can go and wrap themselves around bits which can cause major issues. Still, you should not have to worry now. 

Many thanks again Gerry,

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Jim70]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 7:35 AM, vuduo2 said:

Hey Jim,  thanks a million for getting back to me.

All credit to numptiness, me of course!! , as you suggested, within the service manual it mention's "Replace toothed belt" 2.0TDI models @ 133,000 miles.

A quick google has confirmed "Toothed Belts" & "Timing Belts" are the same.

What I cannot understand is why main dealers are all saying the timing belt is due for replacement at 75,000 miles ( apart from money grabbing reasons)

🙂🙂 we can all be a bit daft sometimes, can't see the wood for the trees lol. 

Thanks for all the info/email from Audi UK 👍

I've had an interesting read through all the comments on this post. It's always good to get varied points of view and all valid. My car is coming up for 5 years old but has just under 30,000 miles on it.

I've had a look for the timing belt kit with water pump and tensioners and going to do the change myself very soon just to give me peace of mind.

At the end of the day, if you're a bit wary of it and the history of the car, I always say just change it, then at least you know it's done.

Cheers

Jim

[Magnet]

Hello Jim,

Some might (rightly?) say that since the car has only covered a low milage then changing the belt and assembly after 5 years is unnecessary. What often gets forgotten is that once a car gets to operating temperature and is say even covering high mileages on the motorway, the long term stress on the belt may be less than a low milage car which has been mostly used on short trips where it seldom gets up to temperature.

As a matter of interest, what kits with water pumps have you been looking at?

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Jim70]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:42 AM, Magnet said:

Hello Jim,

Some might (rightly?) say that since the car has only covered a low milage then changing the belt and assembly after 5 years is unnecessary. What often gets forgotten is that once a car gets to operating temperature and is say even covering high mileages on the motorway, the long term stress on the belt may be less than a low milage car which has been mostly used on short trips where it seldom gets up to temperature.

As a matter of interest, what kits with water pumps have you been looking at?

Kind regards,

Gareth.

Hi Gareth,

Yeah I agree that short stop/start journeys will put more strain on some things. I've had the car just less than a year now and don't do many short journeys but I don't know how the car was driven before so this is why I'm keen to change the belt/tensioners on mine.

I had a look online and came across a Gates kit that includes the belt, pump and tensioners for around £150.

What's your thoughts on this kit? 

Cheers

Jim

[Magnet]

Hello James,

I have used Gates kits in the past but I do not use their kits which include the water pump, since these must be classed as ‘aftermarket’ and I don’t think there is any substitute for main dealer parts for this critical application. 

I think you might find that VAG sell, or at least did sell, a ‘reconditioned’ pump and your old one has to be returned to them under surcharge. It is rumoured that these are in fact new pumps, and your old pumps are acquired for scrapping so they don’t get into the aftermarket chain. I think if this were mine I would be tempted not to change your pump, in preference to using an aftermarket one. 

Some may say that if you are doing this critical job yourself and saving a fair amount of money on labour, then it’s wise to invest in the best components and stick with genuine VAG parts. 

Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s. You could try Trade Parts Supply, who specialise in genuine VAG parts. You can sometimes get discounted prices via. this route. Again, dealers sometimes have offers on cambelt changes - sometimes making it not worth your while to do it yourself. Might be worth a ring around. 

[Jim70]

Hi Gareth,

I was only going to change the water pump as a matter of course because I was changing the belt but I'm not going to bother doing it just now.

I went into a garage that specializes in VAG repairs/servicing to ask how much it would be for him to do the job, he estimated about £500 and would only fit genuine parts anyhow.

I had a good chat with the guy, he was extremely helpful and advised me with the age and mileage (nearly 5 years old with just under 30,000 miles) of my car he said there is no way it needs to be done just now. He has done them in the past and said these belts are made to last and it's 10 years or 130,000 miles before this job needs doing 🙂 so I'm happy to leave it for now. 

Cheers

[Magnet]

Hello James,

Many thanks for coming back on this. Not wanting to throw spanners into works, but you have just had another opinion to add to the ‘everyone has an (a different) opinion’ bank of advice, and if peace of mind is worth anything then it’s a  question of following the ‘official ‘ advice sought from Audi rather than just taking a chance that it will be OK beyond their timescale. Of course, it might be a chance worth taking, but a chance it is. 

I wouldn’t be sure of the worth of the car - but I guess it would come under the heading of considerable- and again I do not know the cost of replacing a wrecked engine, but I can guess. The magic formular here is to measure the risk taken against the cost of this ‘routine service part change’ against the risk of something going. Whatever that formular is, a risk it is, and one thing is for sure £500 in a bank account is nice, but gambling the ‘extra time bought in not spending it’?? Only you can decide on that James, and I guess you are now armed with as many opinions as responses, so there is no shortage of advice. 

I think as I indicated, this isn’t any sort of ‘cost is King’ job, or whether the money is worth spending at all at this time. It is a critical part application and may just equate to a similar decision on whether to spend money to insure the house or not. It isn’t, if nothing goes wrong, but with this job, the expenditure is inevitable at some point, so I think I would know what I would do, unless money was really really tight. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Clancy]

The puzzling thing about my Audi A6 Avante handbook is that it says the cam belt should be replaced at 133,000 and doesn't even give a duration, only mileage. This is doubling the previous traditionally acknowledged mileage with no reference to age deterioration. I queried this with a very experienced Audi/VW local garage (not a main dealer) and they said it doesn't apply in this country as if geographical location has any bearing on it. I would love to know what an Audi main dealer in Germany would say but that would require speaking the language. This surprising handbook information is supplied by the manufacturer  of the car whose reputation is at stake, if inaccurate. Very puzzling indeed  

[Magnet]

Hello Austin,

Many thanks for being in touch with the forum.

I think you are asking the same question that was asked back in 2019.
Having re -read the posts, all I can add is that I don’t really have anything else of note to now add! 
To me, my logic still holds, and to boil it down, yes, you can delay replacing this assembly and save some money. The substantial ( in caps) risk is that you increase the risk of catastrophic failure - to the tune of wrecking an engine. 
Can you justify such a risk? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[ShaunAustin]

Stumbled across this post. My A6 is 7 years old. I bought it 3 years ago from a Audi dealer and it's now done 50,000 miles. To my knowledge, it's never had a cambelt change so is probably due! I contacted Audi UK to check and they confirmed:

Quote

140,000 miles or replaced at 5 years (UK recommendation), whichever comes first.

I'm suspicious of the 'UK recommendation'. To me that reads 'UK Premium'! 

I do a lot of short journeys so going off what I've read, I need to get it sorted!

Problem is - my Adblue system has just packed in and that has cost me the best part of £1,300 to replace. So my appetite for now spending god-knows-what on a cambelt change is pretty low. 

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this post. Some really useful info.

 

[Magnet]

Hello Shaun,

Apologies, but I’m missing the understanding of the ‘U.K. Premium’ bit.

Appreciating that you have just spent out a large sum of money on something else on the car, but I think the recommendations for cambelt changes as been clearly explained in all the earlier posts - and I think you are accepting that logic. 
If you bought the car when it was 4 year old, then it wouldn’t have needed a cambelt up to that time, but it would have been ‘your responsibility’ to change it a year after you bought it. Now, after 2 years over that  limit, you are still not getting it attended to, and of course, that is your choice - but moreover, it is at your ( in caps) risk. It might be worth getting an estimate for a replacement engine, so you can calculate the value of the risk you are taking here Shaun. Armed with this you might get your appetite back! 
Money is money, and risking not spending is just that. It’s rather akin to saying you are going to take a risk and not insuring your house, because you have just insured your car. Might be worth thinking about not using the car until the necessary funds are available?? 
Apologies, Shaun, but I think there are many folks you can talk to who will know of someone who has wrecked a good engine. Any one of those affected would long for an opportunity to turn the clock back. 
Anyway, enough said……

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Stevey Y]

1 hour ago, ShaunAustin said:

Stumbled across this post. My A6 is 7 years old. I bought it 3 years ago from a Audi dealer and it's now done 50,000 miles. To my knowledge, it's never had a cambelt change so is probably due! I contacted Audi UK to check and they confirmed:

I'm suspicious of the 'UK recommendation'. To me that reads 'UK Premium'! 

I do a lot of short journeys so going off what I've read, I need to get it sorted!

Problem is - my Adblue system has just packed in and that has cost me the best part of £1,300 to replace. So my appetite for now spending god-knows-what on a cambelt change is pretty low. 

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this post. Some really useful info.

 

Hi the recommended belt change milage wise hashes led many a poor souls wallet to the grave, I change mine every 80k or in my case four years whichever comes first, I use my car as a cab so its imperative nothing like that snaps therefore I recommend you get it done post haste as my belt at 80k/four years had stretched about 2mm, the cam belt wears quicker if you do a lot of short journeys as I do especially when sitting in traffic which is when the belt is under maximum stress.

Steve. 

[ShaunAustin]

30 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi the recommended belt change milage wise hashes led many a poor souls wallet to the grave, I change mine every 80k or in my case four years whichever comes first, I use my car as a cab so its imperative nothing like that snaps therefore I recommend you get it done post haste as my belt at 80k/four years had stretched about 2mm, the cam belt wears quicker if you do a lot of short journeys as I do especially when sitting in traffic which is when the belt is under maximum stress.

Steve. 

Thanks Gareth/Steve.

What's interesting is that I have an Audi service plan, the car was serviced 12 months ago (at which point it was 6 years old) and they didn't mention a cambelt change was due! I would have thought it was something that their database would flag. 

I wonder whether it's worth asking a VAG specialist garage to check the tension? Steve - you mentioned that yours had stretched. Presumably, if mines in good condition then it doesn't need replacing? Or is it one of those cases whereby the cost of inspecting it means I may aswell change it anyway?

Ultimately, I'll get it changed, because I'd sooner have the peace of mind. The timing is awful though (no pun intended!), but better than the alternative!

Cheers

[Stevey Y]

17 minutes ago, ShaunAustin said:

Thanks Gareth/Steve.

What's interesting is that I have an Audi service plan, the car was serviced 12 months ago (at which point it was 6 years old) and they didn't mention a cambelt change was due! I would have thought it was something that their database would flag. 

I wonder whether it's worth asking a VAG specialist garage to check the tension? Steve - you mentioned that yours had stretched. Presumably, if mines in good condition then it doesn't need replacing? Or is it one of those cases whereby the cost of inspecting it means I may aswell change it anyway?

Ultimately, I'll get it changed, because I'd sooner have the peace of mind. The timing is awful though (no pun intended!), but better than the alternative!

Cheers

Hi the belt is self tensioned but the major consideration is its age as they are bonded rubber and nylon reinforcement between the outer part and the inner toothed surface, once the reinforcement is exposed it will fail in short order, the reason they don't mention it is they rather hope to see it again on a trailer needing a good few grands worth of valve gear and cams and thats only if a valve hasn't collided with a piston and holed it in which case the sky is the limit, a short block is about five and half grand and then theres the cylinder heads valves, these people don't care as long as it makes money and I guarantee your car will never run properly again, I have witnessed this with my nieces A4 which went in under warranty because it was burning a litre of oil a week, it came back running like biscuit tin full of nails and leaking oil/water, go to a VAG specialist or any good independent garage and get it done believe me when I tell you the alternatives are horrific.

Steve.

[Magnet]

Hello Shaun,

Apologies if I’ve got it wrong, but I have the distinct feeling that you want to justify not (in caps) changing the belt assembly, and if that is the case, then don’t worry about it, and just carry on regardless of the potential outcome. 
‘Ultimately, I’ll get it changed…’ Ultimately to me equates to some time in the future to suit. Let’s hope that time comes before the consequence of not changing it, as a matter of overdue urgency. 
You have fair amount of collateral left in this vehicle, please don’t run the risk of rendering it borderline uneconomic to repair  - but there again, it’s your car to do, or not do with, as you see fit. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[ShaunAustin]

12 hours ago, Magnet said:

Hello Shaun,

Apologies if I’ve got it wrong, but I have the distinct feeling that you want to justify not (in caps) changing the belt assembly, and if that is the case, then don’t worry about it, and just carry on regardless of the potential outcome. 
‘Ultimately, I’ll get it changed…’ Ultimately to me equates to some time in the future to suit. Let’s hope that time comes before the consequence of not changing it, as a matter of overdue urgency. 
You have fair amount of collateral left in this vehicle, please don’t run the risk of rendering it borderline uneconomic to repair  - but there again, it’s your car to do, or not do with, as you see fit. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Yes you've got it wrong Gareth. I'll be going to a VAG specialist today (the one who fixed my Adblue pump) and will be getting it booked in. My questions are motivated by wanting to go there armed with some knowledge, rather than trying to justify doing nothing. 

[ShaunAustin]

13 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi the belt is self tensioned but the major consideration is its age as they are bonded rubber and nylon reinforcement between the outer part and the inner toothed surface, once the reinforcement is exposed it will fail in short order, the reason they don't mention it is they rather hope to see it again on a trailer needing a good few grands worth of valve gear and cams and thats only if a valve hasn't collided with a piston and holed it in which case the sky is the limit, a short block is about five and half grand and then theres the cylinder heads valves, these people don't care as long as it makes money and I guarantee your car will never run properly again, I have witnessed this with my nieces A4 which went in under warranty because it was burning a litre of oil a week, it came back running like biscuit tin full of nails and leaking oil/water, go to a VAG specialist or any good independent garage and get it done believe me when I tell you the alternatives are horrific.

Steve.

Cheers Steve. Really useful information, thanks.

 I've always bought used cars (ford's, nissans) that are around 3 years old and low mileage, and I've never had a new timing belt fitted. Sounds like I've just been lucky! I'm getting the Audi booked in a.s.a.p, hopefully for next week.