Horrendous Bad Starter !

[Diana]

Hi,

I have a 2008 A3 2.0 TDi 170 Q S-Line with 140+ miles. I love my car when it starts !

The last year or so it has spend a lot of time in the dealership (because I need a courtesy car) with hiccups at very low speed (in traffic) first and bad starting.

Its not been good news at all ! The tandem pump was replaced, then failed and was replaced under warranty, fine ok for a bit. Then the hiccups

got worse and I had the injectors done. Great .. life was feeling better !  It certainly was driving well. Starting improved, so I thought. It went in again

because I was not totally happy with the starting. Always thought one turn of the key does it ! This was thought to be the starter motor, ok these things

wear out, what I call a serviceable item. However, this was not the case. Pressure test revealed I have a porous head ! As you can imagine not happy

as that is expensive in my book ! So I thought I would live with that until such time, as when it starts it drives fine.

My car has stood parked for less than two days and now it won't start full stop, it turns over but won't engage. I even tried the key turning to ignition without

turning over, but to not avail.  ! I got a message saying 'ESP fault check manual'.

Can someone advise on what that might be now as I am getting thoroughly depressed !

 

 

 

[cliffcoggin]

Diana.

I was going to make a joke about the ESP fault referring to psychic abilities, but it would not have been funny. (That's psychic as in extra sensory perception.) Sorry, can't help on that score.

Being a natural cynic I am suspicious about the diagnosis of a porous head. Even if such a thing was possible I find it hard to believe it has gone undetected for 140000 miles. However I could certainly believe low compression as a result of worn bores, a cracked head, a damaged head gasket, or worn valve seats, all of which happen to old engines. (140000 miles would normally be too early for that sort of wear unless the engine has been thrashed or poorly maintained.) Low compression would cause the symptoms of poor starting and uneven running you have experienced, though it must be said they could equally be caused by other faults.

In your position I would have the compression test repeated at another garage to obviate any suspicion of being led up the garden path by a shady mechanic. Unfortunately there are still places that try to take advantage of women in the hope that they have no mechanical knowledge. If the test again shows low compression then you are faced with at best a moderately expensive repair if it only needs a new head gasket, or at worst a hugely expensive complete replacement engine. If the compression rest result is OK then a more extensive investigation is needed to find the root cause of the problems.

[Magnet]

Hello Diana,

Sorry to hear of your ongoing problems. The fact that the issue has now escalated to the vehicle not starting marks a significant point in its diagnosis, and should make it easier to sort out a primary cause of this. 

I note you refer to ‘dealer’ in your record of what has been done, and can I ask if the work has been carried out at an Audi dealer? 

In my opinion, the resolution of faults with an 11 year old diesel are best entrusted to a local diesel specialist rather than a main or independent dealer, since the in depth experience rests there. 

If this were mine, I would be enquiring of the taxi drivers at your local rank as to where the best local-to-you diesel specialist is ( these chaps depend for their living on the services of such specialists) and entrust thevwork to them. 

Porous cylinder head? I’m with Cliff on his side of the argument, but ‘porous’ can also apply where the coolant chambers become porous - very rare - and in that respect it would be anticipated that the car would lose coolant - does it? I too think this is in effect the result of ‘we don’t know what is wrong with it’.

ESP? - electronic stability programme- in effect a loss of ‘traction control’ and is often linked to an ABS braking issue - although not always. This should be subject of a separate investigation. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[Diana]

21 hours ago, Diana said:

Hi,

I have a 2008 A3 2.0 TDi 170 Q S-Line with 140+ miles. I love my car when it starts !

The last year or so it has spend a lot of time in the dealership (because I need a courtesy car) with hiccups at very low speed (in traffic) first and bad starting.

Its not been good news at all ! The tandem pump was replaced, then failed and was replaced under warranty, fine ok for a bit. Then the hiccups

got worse and I had the injectors done. Great .. life was feeling better !  It certainly was driving well. Starting improved, so I thought. It went in again

because I was not totally happy with the starting. Always thought one turn of the key does it ! This was thought to be the starter motor, ok these things

wear out, what I call a serviceable item. However, this was not the case. Pressure test revealed I have a porous head ! As you can imagine not happy

as that is expensive in my book ! So I thought I would live with that until such time, as when it starts it drives fine.

My car has stood parked for less than two days and now it won't start full stop, it turns over but won't engage. I even tried the key turning to ignition without

turning over, but to not avail.  ! I got a message saying 'ESP fault check manual'.

Can someone advise on what that might be now as I am getting thoroughly depressed !

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, cliffcoggin said:

Diana.

I was going to make a joke about the ESP fault referring to psychic abilities, but it would not have been funny. (That's psychic as in extra sensory perception.) Sorry, can't help on that score.

Being a natural cynic I am suspicious about the diagnosis of a porous head. Even if such a thing was possible I find it hard to believe it has gone undetected for 140000 miles. However I could certainly believe low compression as a result of worn bores, a cracked head, a damaged head gasket, or worn valve seats, all of which happen to old engines. (140000 miles would normally be too early for that sort of wear unless the engine has been thrashed or poorly maintained.) Low compression would cause the symptoms of poor starting and uneven running you have experienced, though it must be said they could equally be caused by other faults.

In your position I would have the compression test repeated at another garage to obviate any suspicion of being led up the garden path by a shady mechanic. Unfortunately there are still places that try to take advantage of women in the hope that they have no mechanical knowledge. If the test again shows low compression then you are faced with at best a moderately expensive repair if it only needs a new head gasket, or at worst a hugely expensive complete replacement engine. If the compression rest result is OK then a more extensive investigation is needed to find the root cause of the problems.

You are right Cliff, the ESP thing not currently funny with what’s been happening to me 😂, but I would forgive you.

 I was gobsmacked about the porous head I must admit. Although they said that there had only come across about 8 in 17 years, although that didn’t make it any better! My last A3 done over 220k but the electrics with the speedo were the problem. It also had 7 previous owners. With this I am the second lady owner so absolutely mystified with all these running problems! No ever had a car with so many problems and I have been driving a long time with many cars under my belt! 

I was too thinking that surely the drive would be a bit rough with the compression issue, but that’s not the case. 

The problem I have is finding a good independent and I need a car to get to work because it’s a bit in the sticks!

The only place I used for my old Audi was some 16 miles away. Although they had a courtesy car and were helpful.  Although I will say my mechanical is not zero, I understand things and liked detailed explanations of problems including drawings ! However, should a engineer or mechanic give me bad vibes then I am gone !

I was advised that by replacing just the head could put extra pressure on the bottom end causing the bearings to go. So then it’s added expense ! Deep joy !

 I guess I am a very unlucky Audi owner who is mega fed up, cheesed off and depressed!

[Diana]

1 hour ago, Magnet said:

Hello Diana,

Sorry to hear of your ongoing problems. The fact that the issue has now escalated to the vehicle not starting marks a significant point in its diagnosis, and should make it easier to sort out a primary cause of this. 

I note you refer to ‘dealer’ in your record of what has been done, and can I ask if the work has been carried out at an Audi dealer? 

In my opinion, the resolution of faults with an 11 year old diesel are best entrusted to a local diesel specialist rather than a main or independent dealer, since the in depth experience rests there. 

If this were mine, I would be enquiring of the taxi drivers at your local rank as to where the best local-to-you diesel specialist is ( these chaps depend for their living on the services of such specialists) and entrust thevwork to them. 

Porous cylinder head? I’m with Cliff on his side of the argument, but ‘porous’ can also apply where the coolant chambers become porous - very rare - and in that respect it would be anticipated that the car would lose coolant - does it? I too think this is in effect the result of ‘we don’t know what is wrong with it’.

ESP? - electronic stability programme- in effect a loss of ‘traction control’ and is often linked to an ABS braking issue - although not always. This should be subject of a separate investigation. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

Thanks Gareth for replying to my dire situation.

Hopefully so, but unfortunately I am not 100% convinced because there have been too many problems dealt with but I still have the same problem! 

I have been taking my car to the local Audi dealership (where I used to work many years ago). 

That is a good point about the taxi drivers. Will need to do that ASAP. 

I do not have any signs of loss coolant. This is something I have always looked out as that is a bad sign !

The push has come to the shove now as this has been going on far too long and proving very expensive ( Could of bought a new car !) !!! If they don’t know what’s wrong with it then there’s no hope for them especially ‘the ones’ that are ‘touching and feeling’ my car !

With regards to the ESP warning, that only happened when I was a bit persistent in trying to start it ! Probably should not of done that, but I really didn’t want it to not start! So mystified about that now! More deep joy!

Kind regards 

Diana

[cliffcoggin]

There's not much more I can add except to repeat that a second assessment should be done elsewhere before committing yourself to some serious expenditure. If the Audi dealer who once employed you can not or will not come up with a better explanation than a porous head I wonder what ordinary paying customers are told. If he is prepared to absolutely guarantee that a new head will cure the problem then fair enough, but I doubt he will.

[Magnet]

Hello Diana,

Please do not commit to any further expenditure or testing on this car without having it assessed by a diesel specialist - forget Audi, forget Audi independents, and just depend on a recommended trusted diesel specialist - they know their way around these engines. If it were mine, I would be just getting it recovered there.

As I said, I would not worry about the ESP light for now. You could find this is due to nothing more than a now run down battery.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Diana]

On 5/28/2019 at 8:21 PM, Magnet said:

Hello Diana,

Please do not commit to any further expenditure or testing on this car without having it assessed by a diesel specialist - forget Audi, forget Audi independents, and just depend on a recommended trusted diesel specialist - they know their way around these engines. If it were mine, I would be just getting it recovered there.

As I said, I would not worry about the ESP light for now. You could find this is due to nothing more than a now run down battery.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Many thanks for that advise Gareth, I did manage to get it to a diesel specialist.

The fault has yet to reoccur, which is typical.