Service costs and alternatives

[ThomasG]

The Audi dealer/workshop service costs are very high. Especially when you look at the cost of brake pad renewal and extrapolate the rest! I got some Pagid discs and pads recently and got them fitted locally for a third of the cost.

That said. I need a service in 1000 miles, or so I am being told by the HUD. What should I ask the local garage to do? I have the BiTdi Allroad.

Thanks in advance...

[Magnet]

Hello Thomas, 

You would need to let the forum know when the car was last serviced, what level of service it had, what the current mileage is etc. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Stevey Y]

Hi I am new to this forum and type of vehicle but with all my previous cabs I have used the following rule of thumb, change the brake fluid every 30k or three years which ever occurs first, with regard to the rest of the service items I would change the oil air and pollen filter at whatever service interval you are pegged at, in my case 9k I was on 15k but changed that as I honestly believe leaving the oil and filters does the car a disservice, the fluids and filters I removed from my car when I serviced it at the 15k interval were well and truly shot, we did a fluids discipline at college and were taken to a company that blended additives for all the major motor oil Manufacturers and the result of some of the tests could be regarded as frightening, most of the regular long life oils when analysed at their change interval were showing signs of rapid molecular deconstruction at this point that is where accelerated mechanical wear occurs, so the conclusion was that changing oil earlier won't cure a problem but may well prevent that problem from occurring.

I am fortunate enough to be able to do my own servicing but when it falls due in the depths of winter I am at that age now where freezing my cods off on the drive is not an attractive proposition, therefore I buy all my own parts and oil from either eBay or the local motor factors and launch the whole bundle at my local garage who are quite happy to do the job for the labour price only, buying your own parts saves you a fortune and is all I ever buy are branded parts Bosch, Blueprint,Wix as all these companies supply the manufacturers anyway, I guarantee if you buy dealer parts that they will come in a nice box printed with the Audi/Vag logo on it but what is inside will have Mahle or Bosch stamped on it.

[ThomasG]

4 hours ago, Magnet said:

Hello Thomas, 

You would need to let the forum know when the car was last serviced, what level of service it had, what the current mileage is etc. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

When I bought it in November, it had 'just been serviced'. The local garage are very thorough, but I've not done enough miles to trigger the Audi service warning. I've done about 5k since I bought it - it's now at 81k. So I imagine they did the filters and oils. I can check with them. 

As for Steve's reply, I would love to service it myself - I miss working on my old Lightweight Landrover...but the two vehicles are poles apart!

[Stevey Y]

5 minutes ago, ThomasG said:

When I bought it in November, it had 'just been serviced'. The local garage are very thorough, but I've not done enough miles to trigger the Audi service warning. I've done about 5k since I bought it - it's now at 81k. So I imagine they did the filters and oils. I can check with them. 

As for Steve's reply, I would love to service it myself - I miss working on my old Lightweight Landrover...but the two vehicles are poles apart!

I fully appreciate where your coming from Thomas my passion was the old Alfasuds and I would agree that those along with the Landys were a vocation rather than a hobby, I always remember taking the engine cover off of my first modern Mondeo and standing there looking down at all the pipes, wires and sensors almost dumb with shock, thank the lord for youtube because as soon as you get your head round the fact that sensors rather than cables and sprung actuators now control the functions you are half way there.

I did the first service on the back of a video on youtube that I kept watching until I had memorised it, if as you obviously do you understand the dynamics of servicing the modern cars are actually more simple to service than the older ones, you are not messing about with feeler gauges with tappets which are now hydraulic and everything else is operated by canbus communications , I actually amazed myself and got into various diagnostic platforms I now have VCDS  and have replaced a couple of sensors on the Audi and re learned their values,

As my sarcastic daughter put it after I put out the EML on her Alfa Mito, at last dad has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, she who knows everything about phones snapchat Facebook etc but bugger all about cars, life is strange but don't be terrorised by what you own if you have worked on cars before I would asses that you are more than capable you just don't know it yet.

[ThomasG]

7 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

I fully appreciate where your coming from Thomas my passion was the old Alfasuds and I would agree that those along with the Landys were a vocation rather than a hobby, I always remember taking the engine cover off of my first modern Mondeo and standing there looking down at all the pipes, wires and sensors almost dumb with shock, thank the lord for youtube because as soon as you get your head round the fact that sensors rather than cables and sprung actuators now control the functions you are half way there.

I did the first service on the back of a video on youtube that I kept watching until I had memorised it, if as you obviously do you understand the dynamics of servicing the modern cars are actually more simple to service than the older ones, you are not messing about with feeler gauges with tappets which are now hydraulic and everything else is operated by canbus communications , I actually amazed myself and got into various diagnostic platforms I now have VCDS  and have replaced a couple of sensors on the Audi and re learned their values,

As my sarcastic daughter put it after I put out the EML on her Alfa Mito, at last dad has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, she who knows everything about phones snapchat Facebook etc but bugger all about cars, life is strange but don't be terrorised by what you own if you have worked on cars before I would asses that you are more than capable you just don't know it yet.

You are too kind. I had a TVR Tuscan, and you couldn't get into the engine. It was in the 'second' bonnet, that was sealed. You could add water to the radiator and top up oil! That was a great car, no driving assists...haha. But the price of a set of tyres!

I'll see what Europarts is offering on it's latest DFS sale, and maybe get the parts...Though there's a very good chap round the corner. The Scottish Borders is the land of the Jim Clark Rally, and he's an ex-rally mechanic, so I trust him.

[Magnet]

Hello Thomas,

OK, so it sounds as if you are not going to DIY this, so Steve’s suggestion of buying the best of parts/oil and getting your local garage to do the work seems the best way forward - if they are happy for you to supply the parts. 

If this were mine, it would be a ‘start again’ service, and treat it as if none of the filters have been changed. So change oil, air, fuel, and pollen. Adopting this method, will allow you to decide which schedule to service this under in the future - a Longlife type service which could run to c18K miles or around 18 months, or annually for example. 

Quality parts? If not using genuine VAG filters for example, then I only use Mann or Bosch ones. I never find I need to select anything else. Oil? I only use the past/ current VAG recommended Quantum brand, and alway go with their Longlife 3, although despite ours being changed every year and approx. 7K miles. 

Europarts? Why? Because they have ‘attractive’ discount prices on so called retail prices?

Always check their after-discount prices with other on line competitors, and it’s rare to find they are competitive - and on-line get delivered to your door. Their own brand filters - Crossland was a once respected brand. Would I use them at any price instead of Bosch or Mann? Definitely no. Would I use their own brand oil in place of Quantum at similar price? No. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Stevey Y]

Thomas the ex rally mechanic sounds like a safe bet as if anyone has been a witness to monumental part failure I would say he has probably seen it all, as for the Tuscan thats my type of car, proper seat of the pants drivers car that one.

[ThomasG]

12 hours ago, Magnet said:

Hello Thomas,

OK, so it sounds as if you are not going to DIY this, so Steve’s suggestion of buying the best of parts/oil and getting your local garage to do the work seems the best way forward - if they are happy for you to supply the parts. 

If this were mine, it would be a ‘start again’ service, and treat it as if none of the filters have been changed. So change oil, air, fuel, and pollen. Adopting this method, will allow you to decide which schedule to service this under in the future - a Longlife type service which could run to c18K miles or around 18 months, or annually for example. 

Quality parts? If not using genuine VAG filters for example, then I only use Mann or Bosch ones. I never find I need to select anything else. Oil? I only use the past/ current VAG recommended Quantum brand, and alway go with their Longlife 3, although despite ours being changed every year and approx. 7K miles. 

Europarts? Why? Because they have ‘attractive’ discount prices on so called retail prices?

Always check their after-discount prices with other on line competitors, and it’s rare to find they are competitive - and on-line get delivered to your door. Their own brand filters - Crossland was a once respected brand. Would I use them at any price instead of Bosch or Mann? Definitely no. Would I use their own brand oil in place of Quantum at similar price? No. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Thanks Gareth. These names are what I was after. I used Eurocarparts (online) for my discs and pads - very reasonable indeed, and Pagid/Brembo. 

But I'll go with the parts and oil. Thanks so much. I'd love to do it all, but as with Steve, I'd be in my drive, and I no longer have a trolley jack...

[Magnet]

Hello Thomas, 

I believe (but would need checking) that again Pagid is an ECP own-brand name. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Stevey Y]

54 minutes ago, Magnet said:

Hello Thomas, 

I believe (but would need checking) that again Pagid is an ECP own-brand name. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Hi chaps Pagid started as a braking manufacturer back in the fifties  and rapidly went viral among motor manufacturers  Ford VAG and BMW as there business platform was bulk supplies of quality braking equipment, BMW bought ATE and got out of the loop so therefore Pagid and people like Brembo had to supply aftermarket to maintain their share of the global market, Pagid is more fussy about who they supply as they only supply volume parts purchasers like ECP who unfortunately have been prosecuted a few times in the uk for selling badge engineered Chinese parts, to be honest if you have a non urgent time scale on purchasing parts try Buycarparts they are very cheap and everything I have ever bought has the little check square logos on the boxes that when scanned with the app on your phone will tell you if the part is real or fake.

Steve.

[ThomasG]

12 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi chaps Pagid started as a braking manufacturer back in the fifties  and rapidly went viral among motor manufacturers  Ford VAG and BMW as there business platform was bulk supplies of quality braking equipment, BMW bought ATE and got out of the loop so therefore Pagid and people like Brembo had to supply aftermarket to maintain their share of the global market, Pagid is more fussy about who they supply as they only supply volume parts purchasers like ECP who unfortunately have been prosecuted a few times in the uk for selling badge engineered Chinese parts, to be honest if you have a non urgent time scale on purchasing parts try Buycarparts they are very cheap and everything I have ever bought has the little check square logos on the boxes that when scanned with the app on your phone will tell you if the part is real or fake.

Steve.

I have Brembo rear and Pagid front. I was talking to a friend with a beemer and he rates the Pagid stuff he puts on his car. But, they are on now, so proof of the pudding and all that!! !Removed! massive buggers too. 

[Stevey Y]

Hi Thomas I wasn't trying to infer that what you had bought was fake, just trying to point out that sometimes you have to keep an eye on what ECP are selling, I have had experience of this with them before, example being when we were all running MK4 Mondeos as cabs the 2.0L version had a habit of eating EGR valves which at the time were nearly four hundred quid from Ford or slightly less on eBay, anyway ECP were advertising the Hella version [good brand] for about one sixty one of my fellow cabbies wanted to go get one so I gave him a lift to the local store, when we got there the guy brings the part out in a plain box, ok so we took the part out and inspected it and is all it had was an area where the information was ground off the guy behind the counter said the logo had to be removed as part of the agreement for selling them, fair go I had seen this when someone had blagged some genuine ford oxygen sensors he had been obliged by the supplier to grind off the Ford logo but leave the Bosch logo and part no. on, the counter guy then explained that a plain box and no part no. was what made them so cheap.

To cut a long story short the first valve refused any protocol value re learn so we took it off and went back the next day and got another this one re learns but kept showing up an EML telling me the duty cycle voltage was higher than expected [valve sticking], by now both he and I were both suicidal as the EGR is mounted on the back of the engine so we went back exchanged it again that one worked for two weeks then failed, at this point my mate gave up got a valve down the scrappers from a low mile write off  this worked for another two years until he sold the car.

The last valve I ended up giving to a Ford Dunton engineer that lives near me he was most interested in pulling the part to pieces it transpires it was fake and the electronics were substandard  to the point where they were incapable of obeying commands from the PCM, meanwhile back at ECP  they were so fed up with fielding abuse from lots of customers over this part they just gave them the money back and explained the only replacements they had were twice the price. I am not a fan on a personal level of ECP as I know of a few people who have had problems with their parts, like my local garage returns for duff parts were all over his office to the point where he stopped using them and now uses Motex and Bennets and ECP keep banging on his door for him to come back to them, I think he said the second word was OFF.

Steve.

[ThomasG]

16 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Thomas I wasn't trying to infer that what you had bought was fake, just trying to point out that sometimes you have to keep an eye on what ECP are selling, I have had experience of this with them before, example being when we were all running MK4 Mondeos as cabs the 2.0L version had a habit of eating EGR valves which at the time were nearly four hundred quid from Ford or slightly less on eBay, anyway ECP were advertising the Hella version [good brand] for about one sixty one of my fellow cabbies wanted to go get one so I gave him a lift to the local store, when we got there the guy brings the part out in a plain box, ok so we took the part out and inspected it and is all it had was an area where the information was ground off the guy behind the counter said the logo had to be removed as part of the agreement for selling them, fair go I had seen this when someone had blagged some genuine ford oxygen sensors he had been obliged by the supplier to grind off the Ford logo but leave the Bosch logo and part no. on, the counter guy then explained that a plain box and no part no. was what made them so cheap.

To cut a long story short the first valve refused any protocol value re learn so we took it off and went back the next day and got another this one re learns but kept showing up an EML telling me the duty cycle voltage was higher than expected [valve sticking], by now both he and I were both suicidal as the EGR is mounted on the back of the engine so we went back exchanged it again that one worked for two weeks then failed, at this point my mate gave up got a valve down the scrappers from a low mile write off  this worked for another two years until he sold the car.

The last valve I ended up giving to a Ford Dunton engineer that lives near me he was most interested in pulling the part to pieces it transpires it was fake and the electronics were substandard  to the point where they were incapable of obeying commands from the PCM, meanwhile back at ECP  they were so fed up with fielding abuse from lots of customers over this part they just gave them the money back and explained the only replacements they had were twice the price. I am not a fan on a personal level of ECP as I know of a few people who have had problems with their parts, like my local garage returns for duff parts were all over his office to the point where he stopped using them and now uses Motex and Bennets and ECP keep banging on his door for him to come back to them, I think he said the second word was OFF.

Steve.

Haha.

On another note, I have just been looking at the DIY option of servicing - oil change and all filters. If I use an oil extractor through the dipstick pipe, I don't need to jack it up. Just need to remember who I lent my torque wrench to!

[Stevey Y]

Hi Thomas, go for it, the extraction unit is a first class idea I bought one years ago and never looked back, when I first bought one it was a vacuum extractor they work quite well but eventually I bought an electric pump which connects to the battery this was much better than the vacuum unit from the perspective that you can do other things like change the filter while the oil is being hoovered out and you don't have to keep pumping the extractor to keep the pressure up, if you drain the waste oil into an old oil container you can see exactly how much you have extracted via the level sight on the side of the container.

The torque wrench is not a major must but if you have a low level wrench I think the prescribed tension is about 25-27 NM or in lbs ft not a lot. I once as an experiment took the sump plug out after I had used the extractor unit just to find out if it left  much in there bit of an exercise in futility really, belly pan off undo sump plug for about less than a teaspoon full to drip out, but at least I knew it worked.

If you do the service yourself at least you can do all the little touches like sticking the hoover in the air box to collect all the small debris inside, wipe the thread on the oil filter housing with a rag with a drop of silicone spray this helps with removal next time as the unit is made of thermoplastic and can get a bit grippy with the female alloy thread, the only inescapable bit of laying down is the fuel filter I think its the same on most late A6s and is under the floor on the drivers side the cover is easy enough to remove but the hose clips on the filter are a bit of a bar steward if you are trying to remove with pliers, I bought the proper removal pliers VAG ones for about twelve quid and believe me they make the clip job a dream, found it best policy to move clips back then drop the support bracket this gives enough clearance to twist the pipes off, when reassembling leave the out cover on the filter and pour fuel into the filter the other end you can angle the filter down enough to connect it to the infeed pipe raise the filter up to level remove cap and connect outfeed pipe you will experience a little loss of fuel from the filter, finally before starting run the ignition cycle without cranking for about five seconds four or five times this helps it prime the infeed and filter this avoids excessive cranking when starting, once started run for five mins check for leaks and replace weather cover.

Last but not least you will have saved a tidy sum in labour and the deep satisfaction of knowing its been done properly.

[ThomasG]

8 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Thomas, go for it, the extraction unit is a first class idea I bought one years ago and never looked back, when I first bought one it was a vacuum extractor they work quite well but eventually I bought an electric pump which connects to the battery this was much better than the vacuum unit from the perspective that you can do other things like change the filter while the oil is being hoovered out and you don't have to keep pumping the extractor to keep the pressure up, if you drain the waste oil into an old oil container you can see exactly how much you have extracted via the level sight on the side of the container.

The torque wrench is not a major must but if you have a low level wrench I think the prescribed tension is about 25-27 NM or in lbs ft not a lot. I once as an experiment took the sump plug out after I had used the extractor unit just to find out if it left  much in there bit of an exercise in futility really, belly pan off undo sump plug for about less than a teaspoon full to drip out, but at least I knew it worked.

If you do the service yourself at least you can do all the little touches like sticking the hoover in the air box to collect all the small debris inside, wipe the thread on the oil filter housing with a rag with a drop of silicone spray this helps with removal next time as the unit is made of thermoplastic and can get a bit grippy with the female alloy thread, the only inescapable bit of laying down is the fuel filter I think its the same on most late A6s and is under the floor on the drivers side the cover is easy enough to remove but the hose clips on the filter are a bit of a bar steward if you are trying to remove with pliers, I bought the proper removal pliers VAG ones for about twelve quid and believe me they make the clip job a dream, found it best policy to move clips back then drop the support bracket this gives enough clearance to twist the pipes off, when reassembling leave the out cover on the filter and pour fuel into the filter the other end you can angle the filter down enough to connect it to the infeed pipe raise the filter up to level remove cap and connect outfeed pipe you will experience a little loss of fuel from the filter, finally before starting run the ignition cycle without cranking for about five seconds four or five times this helps it prime the infeed and filter this avoids excessive cranking when starting, once started run for five mins check for leaks and replace weather cover.

Last but not least you will have saved a tidy sum in labour and the deep satisfaction of knowing its been done properly.

Great tips, the YouTube stuff is good, but these wee tips really help. Going to look at the parts online now and do price comparisons. 

[Stevey Y]

Hi Thomas, well done it will seem daunting at first but once performed successfully as I am sure yours will be it engenders a certain confidence in the car as it won't be as frightening anymore, with regard to the youtube stuff its great and puts you in the right ball park to the point where you can make your own subtle changes to the process to make life easier and with a fairly comprehensive tool kit any thing is doable.

On a completely different subject when I did the first post of my headlight problem I had also asked the question to a local Audi specialist whom I was assured was expensive but honest and knowledgable, he told me they would have to plug it in to find the cause, I did explain that I had already used my VCDS and come up empty code wise, he then went on to explain that they had the latest dealer level software and VCDS and Vagcom were not very good and not approved, they he announced used a software called IDOS which when I researched it was a financial accounts software, if you know nothing about software or cars you are a sitting duck for these thieving gits and at £68 an hour plus vat I don't think you will honestly see where the extra money went, try watching Frank Massy on Autoinform on youtube the top chap on diagnostics.

[ThomasG]

47 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Thomas, well done it will seem daunting at first but once performed successfully as I am sure yours will be it engenders a certain confidence in the car as it won't be as frightening anymore, with regard to the youtube stuff its great and puts you in the right ball park to the point where you can make your own subtle changes to the process to make life easier and with a fairly comprehensive tool kit any thing is doable.

On a completely different subject when I did the first post of my headlight problem I had also asked the question to a local Audi specialist whom I was assured was expensive but honest and knowledgable, he told me they would have to plug it in to find the cause, I did explain that I had already used my VCDS and come up empty code wise, he then went on to explain that they had the latest dealer level software and VCDS and Vagcom were not very good and not approved, they he announced used a software called IDOS which when I researched it was a financial accounts software, if you know nothing about software or cars you are a sitting duck for these thieving gits and at £68 an hour plus vat I don't think you will honestly see where the extra money went, try watching Frank Massy on Autoinform on youtube the top chap on diagnostics.

See my Adaptive Cruise Control post!! Honestly, the local garage is spitting feathers as it was their warranty that paid Audi to NOT diagnose the problem. I ended up doing it with ODBEleven and forums. Water in the GPS fin. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

[ThomasG]

One final thing - and I don't think it's falling at the first hurdle - but all filters sourced and fine - but fuel filter seems to come in various flavours - but OEM numbers seem the same. Am I safe to get any (Bosch have three) or is there a way I can check the exact part number I have installed?

Bah!

[Stevey Y]

 

Hi Thomas my sieve like brain forgot to mention that the filters of which there are many are a bit of a sand trap, I originally got the part number for mine off of the ETKA parts program that my mate downloaded, it turned out to be the wrong one as it appears all the bodies are the same size BUT the connectors magically change sizes the infeed pipes are the same fitment but the exit pipe from the filter can vary by up to three different sizes, I even tried asking my local Audi dealer for the part number that came up with my VIN they said that they could not part with that info unless I bought one, I am afraid that the only way to make a positive ID was to get under the car take the filter cover and mounting bracket off pull the foam protector back and read the part number off the unit, once I had that on my phone that was the end of that, I later found out if you have a mate with a garage business they can make a parts enquires to TPS the oe parts supplier and they will give them the correct number as they only deal with the trade.

[ThomasG]

1 hour ago, Stevey Y said:

 

Hi Thomas my sieve like brain forgot to mention that the filters of which there are many are a bit of a sand trap, I originally got the part number for mine off of the ETKA parts program that my mate downloaded, it turned out to be the wrong one as it appears all the bodies are the same size BUT the connectors magically change sizes the infeed pipes are the same fitment but the exit pipe from the filter can vary by up to three different sizes, I even tried asking my local Audi dealer for the part number that came up with my VIN they said that they could not part with that info unless I bought one, I am afraid that the only way to make a positive ID was to get under the car take the filter cover and mounting bracket off pull the foam protector back and read the part number off the unit, once I had that on my phone that was the end of that, I later found out if you have a mate with a garage business they can make a parts enquires to TPS the oe parts supplier and they will give them the correct number as they only deal with the trade.

OK, I'll try to get a pic!! Thanks.

[Stevey Y]

Hi Thomas, did you get the part number, spent a good part of yesterday day watching my friend download a copy of the latest ETKA which recognises the British sold VIN numbers, that gave up all the parts I already had the numbers for they all matched, happy days.

Steve.