Petrol in oil

[JCH]

Hi,

My son has a 2010 Audi A3 1.4TFSi & I'm noticing there is a significant amount of petrol in the oil, I noticed this when I checked the dipstick oil level, which has increased & smells strongly of petrol, does anyone have any idea's why this may be the case?

Thanks in advance for any help,

[Magnet]

Hello Jason,

Thanks for being in touch with the forum.

I know diesel engines on certain marques can suffer with oil dilution due to diesel getting into the engine oil. 
The 1.4 Audi engine and petrol?

Am I right in believing that some engines around this time suffered from high oil consumption? 
Oil consumption with your engine - prior to dilution with petrol? 
Mileage? as a matter of interest Jason. 
I would suggest you treat this engine to an oil and filter change without delay, while the situation is investigated.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[JCH]

3 minutes ago, Magnet said:

Hello Jason,

Thanks for being in touch with the forum.

I know diesel engines on certain marques can suffer with oil dilution due to diesel getting into the engine oil. 
The 1.4 Audi engine and petrol?

Am I right in believing that some engines around this time suffered from high oil consumption? 
Oil consumption with your engine - prior to dilution with petrol? 
Mileage? as a matter of interest Jason. 
I would suggest you treat this engine to an oil and filter change without delay, while the situation is investigated.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Thanks Gareth for your reply. The oil (Mobil 1 ESP 05/30w) & filter (genuine VAG) was changed around 200 miles back. The mileage is around 76K. I can't tell if its using oil, with the level on the dipstick level increasing, there's no smoke from the exhaust. The engine is petrol & I'm planning to get the oil changed, but suspecting its going to get diluted quite quickly again.

[JCH]

Thanks Gareth for your reply. The oil (Mobil 1 ESP 05/30w) & filter (genuine VAG) was changed around 200 miles back. The mileage is around 76K. I can't tell if its using oil, with the level on the dipstick level increasing, there's no smoke from the exhaust. The engine is petrol & I'm planning to get the oil changed, but suspecting its going to get diluted quite quickly again.

[cliffcoggin]

The 1.4 litre petrol engine for a few years was the subject of numerous claims against Audi because of a manufacturing fault causing extraordinary oil consumption. I leave you to look up the details and dates, but if yours proves to be one of the affected engines the only solution is a new engine.

Having said that, your engine may not be one of those affected by the above problem, and the fault may lie elsewhere. I suggest you start with a compression test.

It shouldn't need saying that petrol in the engine oil will dramatically reduce its lubricating power, and lead to its ruination.

[JCH]

6 minutes ago, cliffcoggin said:

The 1.4 litre petrol engine for a few years was the subject of numerous claims against Audi because of a manufacturing fault causing extraordinary oil consumption. I leave you to look up the details and dates, but if yours proves to be one of the affected engines the only solution is a new engine.

Having said that, your engine may not be one of those affected by the above problem, and the fault may lie elsewhere. I suggest you start with a compression test.

It shouldn't need saying that petrol in the engine oil will dramatically reduce its lubricating power, and lead to its ruination.

Thank you for your reply, do you possibly think something could be lurking within the engine, just with you saying carry out a compression test? 

[Magnet]

Thanks Jason,

Just to colour in the background:- Is this a problem which has suddenly manifested itself? 
Has your son owned this car long enough to have had experience of any earlier issues with this engine? 
For what it’s worth, does the car have a reasonably complete and known service history - for an 11 year old car?

Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s.Now knowing that the car has only just had a quality oil and filter change, it would seem rather pointless in doing it again now - rather than getting some trusted local advice with some urgency. 

[cliffcoggin]

1 hour ago, JCH said:

Thank you for your reply, do you possibly think something could be lurking within the engine, just with you saying carry out a compression test? 

A compression test is just the first step to making a diagnosis of the fault. It may indicate a blown head gasket, a cracked block, a warped head etc. though to be honest if any of those faults were present I would also expect other symptoms, none of which you have mentioned. If none of that means anything to you please get professional advice quickly. The engine is risk of permanent damage if it is run with the quantity of petrol you tell us is in the oil.

For the sake of completeness are there any other symptoms you have not told us of? I am thinking of overheating, loss of coolant, brown emulsion in the oil, loss of power, knocking under load, smoke under hard acceleration.

[JCH]

23 hours ago, cliffcoggin said:

A compression test is just the first step to making a diagnosis of the fault. It may indicate a blown head gasket, a cracked block, a warped head etc. though to be honest if any of those faults were present I would also expect other symptoms, none of which you have mentioned. If none of that means anything to you please get professional advice quickly. The engine is risk of permanent damage if it is run with the quantity of petrol you tell us is in the oil.

For the sake of completeness are there any other symptoms you have not told us of? I am thinking of overheating, loss of coolant, brown emulsion in the oil, loss of power, knocking under load, smoke under hard acceleration.

Thanks Clifford,

The engine does seem to run quite hot, the temperature gauge is normal, the oil does seem to have brown emulsion, yes there is a knock from the engine under load, but only at a certain RPM, no smoke from the exhaust. When the engine is cold & in neutral, if you give a short hard rev (say up to 3000rpm) there is a knock from the engine (but reduces when the clutch is pressed down), when ticking over its silent & the knock is less noticeable when the engine is warm.

Looking forward for any idea's you have, 

[JCH]

On 11/14/2021 at 6:47 PM, Magnet said:

Thanks Jason,

Just to colour in the background:- Is this a problem which has suddenly manifested itself? 
Has your son owned this car long enough to have had experience of any earlier issues with this engine? 
For what it’s worth, does the car have a reasonably complete and known service history - for an 11 year old car?

Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s.Now knowing that the car has only just had a quality oil and filter change, it would seem rather pointless in doing it again now - rather than getting some trusted local advice with some urgency. 

Thanks Gareth, 

Unfortunately my son has only owned the car for around 5 weeks. We have been given quite a few receipts from previous services, of which haven't been carried out at Audi, but at an independent VAG garage, they have used Quantum oil & genuine VAG filters. When we test drove the car, the engine sounded fine (but I'm not ruling out they may have used some Wynns engine noise reducer). We only ever owned VW's & Audi's, never had any issues, so this is a first.

[Stevey Y]

Hi, sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but I think one of the big end bearings is on the way out, as you mentioned the knocking decreased when you engaged the clutch, this is because engaging the clutch takes the strain off the crank so its movement is less encumbered by the clutch assemblies weight which means less flexing of the crank itself.

My guess is you are probably right about the Wynns, the main problem with a lot of the petrol engines built between 2008-2011 was as a result of upcoming emission regs in Europe Audi had to find a way PDQ of reducing the emissions so their answer was to use slight overbore to reduce friction and thinner piston rings to prevent bore drag, the problem is the rings get stuck in the grooves on the piston and are not tight against the cylinder, Cliffords suggestion of a compression test is a good start but I think it might have gone beyond that, personally I would go back at the garage 5 weeks is well within the boundary of rejection under the sale of goods act, it may well have come with a known service history but that won't cure a built in problem.

Steve.

[JCH]

50 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi, sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but I think one of the big end bearings is on the way out, as you mentioned the knocking decreased when you engaged the clutch, this is because engaging the clutch takes the strain off the crank so its movement is less encumbered by the clutch assemblies weight which means less flexing of the crank itself.

My guess is you are probably right about the Wynns, the main problem with a lot of the petrol engines built between 2008-2011 was as a result of upcoming emission regs in Europe Audi had to find a way PDQ of reducing the emissions so their answer was to use slight overbore to reduce friction and thinner piston rings to prevent bore drag, the problem is the rings get stuck in the grooves on the piston and are not tight against the cylinder, Cliffords suggestion of a compression test is a good start but I think it might have gone beyond that, personally I would go back at the garage 5 weeks is well within the boundary of rejection under the sale of goods act, it may well have come with a known service history but that won't cure a built in problem.

Steve.

Thanks Steve, I'd rather be prepared, the questions are, is it possible to replace the big end bearings without removal of the engine, or is it worth getting a reconditioned engine, or change it for another A3 petrol (say a 1.6FSI for low insurance purposes, or do the 1.6's have issues?), I'm starting to think it may be not worth getting a compression test.

[cliffcoggin]

To summarise: the engine knocks under certain conditions, it might be running hot (though I fail to understand how that can be if the guage reads normal,) and it creates emulsion in the oil. (I suspect the increasing level in the sump is caused mainly by water ingress, tainted by a little petrol.)

If the knocking is from a big end or a main bearing which has worn the others will be close behind, as will the bores and rings, and a recon engine would be the cheapest solution.

I fear you may have bought a clapped out wreck, but before condeming it prematurely I would get the engine assessed professionally. There is a limit to what can be diagnosed from incomplete written descriptions, and you should not rely entirely on advice here before deciding to commit to major expense.

[Magnet]

Hello Jason,

I think it’s evident from the replies, that you have a problem car (engine) on your hands here, but personally (although I understand your logic) I would not be devoting much more time to trying to establish more facts or reasons for the issue, from here. 

Time is of the essence here:- (1) in terms of not driving the car unless for an essential investigatory reason, and (2) I would not be wasting any more time in formally notifying the seller, in writing ( e mail will do) that you have a potentially significant issue with the car’s engine. 
While you are doing this, I would be seeking out a trusted local Audi independent and tentatively booking the car in for inspection and report ( the report bit is important). You can then tell the seller that that is your intention, and asking them to agree to this - or of course, disagree with it. 
Perhaps you could let us know how you get on.

Kind regards,

Gareth, 

[Stevey Y]

21 hours ago, JCH said:

Thanks Steve, I'd rather be prepared, the questions are, is it possible to replace the big end bearings without removal of the engine, or is it worth getting a reconditioned engine, or change it for another A3 petrol (say a 1.6FSI for low insurance purposes, or do the 1.6's have issues?), I'm starting to think it may be not worth getting a compression test.

Hi although I have never seen the vehicle common sense dictates the question do I throw more money at it, if the garage wants to pay the cost by all means, as Clifford suggested fit a reconditioned unit as this won't have the problems you have now, with regard to the car being clapped out it must have looked like a good proposition for you to buy otherwise you would have walked away, the brown emulsion in the oil is a classic example of fuel ingression, if you want to replace big end shells you would have to replace the piston assemblies as well ergo a recon unit would be better its known as a short engine which has had the crank journals reground and oversize shells fitted, new oil pump, pistons and rings, personally as Gareth suggested I would see if I could get an engineers report, get my money back, you may suffer a small financial loss but its better than losing the lot and if you source another vehicle either buy a couple off years later model or buy a diesel as its impossible to buy one with that type of problem as they rely on compression detonation and if the rings are gone will run like a bag of spanners.

Steve.