At last the facts.

[Stevey Y]

Hi did anyone watch the channel 4 documentary, the truth about electric cars, what an eye opener they took a group of random cars to a company that specialises in emissions analysis, heres the meaty bit they found that Hybrid petrol vehicles emit 30 percent more Co2 than conventional petrol vehicles and the Nox ratio is up as well, the diesel vehicles produced a lot less Co2 than the petrol and the Nox was less on those fitted with Adblue.

Boris and Mr Khan are all over these vehicles being driven in London, is this a message to us to go and pollute much more?, I rather think its more to do with the back handers that are coming from Uber to keep their fleet of ageing Priuses on the road, they also had an interview with the head of the motor manufactures association who kept on repeating like an African Grey Back Parrot that the Hybrids meet the governments strict guidelines, who is he kidding, one bunch of special needs tells the other bunch to go and do something and off they trot and make a car that pollutes more and costs more as well as not going as far as the brochure says on the electric bit, I feel sorry for those who have rushed out and bought a Hybrid as they have done the opposite of what they wanted to achieve, just shows how easy the public are to fool, its like the story of The Kings New Clothes.

We then went on to charging points for all electric, half were out of order and the other half wouldn't take the guys card and the one that did was expensive, well now theres a thing, he did an interview with some dozy bint who ran an app for finding charging points, when the guy explained his problems is all she said was I can't believe it, not much use when you are stuck at half past stupid with no charge, other Audi sites are starting on line petitions for synthetic fuels and Hydrogen fuel cells, I don't see why this forum can't do that or are we just a shade to reserved, must not grumble I might upset someone in the government, maybe that lying duplicitous scumbag Grant Shapps.

STEVE.

 

[audia4b5kev]

**   THE     MPs

[Obasa]

Hi Steve,

I forgot to watch it at the time of showing. However I watched it last night on catch up. 😀

Very interesting to say the least. Once again the Government and manufacturers have kept us in the dark about certain aspects of EVs that are being produced.

Firstly in my opinion, I believe that EVs will of course be the future of motoring and will improve signifantly over the next 3 years or so. In other words they will improve on all elements of emission controls.

Secondly, the charging points already in place should increase and be more accessible and actually most will work. The Government must take note of ensuring the electric charging point infurstructure is up to speed right across the country. They are aware that motorists not only drive around London and City centre but further afield. Therefore in order to accommodate the masses, the charging points must be working, otherwise this would have a signifant effect on whether the general public switch to an EV or not.

Thirdly, if Hybrids are producing high levels of CO2 into the air, then in my opinion they should be scrapped otherwise it becomes a pointless exercise in emission controls.

Point 4, the driving range needs to improve. If manufacturers make claims that a particular model has a range of say 358 miles, then the EV should do roughly that, give and take a few miles. If the EV does not meet those target miles, then questions should be asked by the owner and seek compensation for false advertising of mileage range. 😉

Point 5, in my opinion the battery life is considered to be reasonable if up to and slightly beyond 7 years or so. Our current conventional cars (petrol/Deisel) batteries have a recommended life span of 5 years before a potential replacement. What I find concerning is when the EV becomes a second hand purchase - how does the next owner determine how long that battery would last them before replacement kicks in. Perhaps manufacturers should introduc some form of battery report in-built within the EVs data for the owners to view. 🤔 As known, the EV's battery costs more than the actual vehicle, therefore it is important to ensure that battery life is recorded somewhere. I believe that battery costs will signifantly drop over the next 3 years ans this will allow the average motorists to afford a reasonably priced EV. 😀

Point 6. The dreaed current purchase cost of EVs. Having test drove the Audi E-Tron GT, of which is an outstanding car and I love to buy one, but that would mean my pension would be swallowed up. 🤣🤣 However at a starting price of in excess of £89,000 😲 I believe it is over expensive. Of course the running costs are much cheaper than a petrol or diesel, but that is beside the point as I may as well by a Super car instead. 😉

Finally, it is my intention to purchase an EV, preferrably an Audi E-Tron model but only in convertible/soft top format of which I have spomen to Audi UK about recently. I have advised them that a convertible model would sell like hot cakes, they agree and it would seem that one is in going into production in the near future - so watch this space!!! 😀

Regards

Olu

[Steve Q]

I watched it. Seeing the reduced range of the 9 year old leaf shows that electric cars aren't the future. As no one will want to keep a car which has an unpredictable range. As such I can see a cars life span being reduced from the current average of 13 years down to something like 7-8 years. Which will mean the production cost of the use of carbon will increase. I do not believe electric cars are the future. Synthetic fuel is the future. 

Plus free tax and cheap running costs will disappear once the majority have them. Road tax will be put on them, plus I can see the electric chargers will be monitored. Ie. Instead of paying one electric bill currently you will have two. Once for conventional electric use for home and a separate one for the car charger. The car charger will be a smart charger so they can know. At which point the government will engineer it so you Pay at least £60 for a full charge. 

 

[Anton8]

As some people know, I deliver and collect new cars. A good few of them now are electric so I have some experience of recharging, mostly on motorways. I must admit things have got better recently. Gridserve is the easiest, they are new, all seem to be operating, just plug in, swipe your credit card, go and have a cup of tea and a piece of cake. Trouble is for a full charge it usually takes 90 minutes. The full charge is usually costing between £9 and £10.

[Obasa]

SteveQ - I totally agree with all your comments on the EVs and the future. I was discussing this with a colleague today who said exactly the same thing. The EV motorist in the futre is going to be stung badly. Perhaps when it happens - there will be uproar!!

[Stevey Y]

5 minutes ago, Anton8 said:

As some people know, I deliver and collect new cars. A good few of them now are electric so I have some experience of recharging, mostly on motorways. I must admit things have got better recently. Gridserve is the easiest, they are new, all seem to be operating, just plug in, swipe your credit card, go and have a cup of tea and a piece of cake. Trouble is for a full charge it usually takes 90 minutes. The full charge is usually costing between £9 and £10.

Hi Anton, I was only commenting on what I watched and my main concern is that Diesels reputation is being destroyed at the expense of promoting the Hybrid which is happily trundling about creating more pollution than the Diesel, and if you don't give the cake up you will cram on the pounds and won't go as far on your new charge because of the extra weight LOL.

Steve.

[Obasa]

Perhaps its the opportunaity for the Government to scrap the road tax in the futre and lump the cost of the EV electric charging points instead. 😉🤣🤣

[Stevey Y]

5 minutes ago, Obasa said:

SteveQ - I totally agree with all your comments on the EVs and the future. I was discussing this with a colleague today who said exactly the same thing. The EV motorist in the futre is going to be stung badly. Perhaps when it happens - there will be uproar!!

Hi its comforting to know I am not the only one to have come to that conclusion, why can they not let us have the choice of what we buy which will probably boil down to a 50/50 split in no time, then again thats not what Boris new toy girl Greta wants

[Anton8]

You are right Steve. This is why I can't give up my diesel, I need the extra torque to move me and the car. 

[Obasa]

Steve - unfortunately we always  bow down to what the Government introduce and instill by dangling certain carrots by testing the waters. I agree the climate guru Greta has not helped matters. Don't get me wrong - I accept that have the save the environment, however there are other methods that could be employed.

I also wonder how the National Grid is going to cope with the surge of electric vehicles being charged up and down the country when they struggle with a surge in power during ad breaks when the kettles get switched on!?! 🤣 The cost of electricity will be go through the roof in years to come as everything inside the home and outside will be electric. 😲

As time goes on - the more the EV become economical to purchase the more sales will increase - that will be doom day for petrol and diesel vehciles as we know it. 😢

[Steve Q]

Needless to say I won't be getting rid of my fossil fuel cars but they way they'll get mine off the road is to tax me an extortionate amount. But this will be cancelled out if synthetic fuel takes off. F1 are going to be using it by 2024 so that shows you where motorsport is heading. 

Plus some are saying they want us minions off the roads which I can believe to an extent. However with most of us off the roads to government would lose one of its main revenue sources. Let's not forget that only a third of road tax is actually used to fix/upgrade the road network

 

 

[Stagn8]

JCB seem to think hydrogen powered ICE engines are the way to go. This definitely worth watching, would need to be scaled down for road cars but easily doable.

 

[Obasa]

Steve Q - I second that motion. There will be a lot of revenue lost through the introduction of EVs - so they must tread carefully. 😉

[Stevey Y]

7 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Needless to say I won't be getting rid of my fossil fuel cars but they way they'll get mine off the road is to tax me an extortionate amount. But this will be cancelled out if synthetic fuel takes off. F1 are going to be using it by 2024 so that shows you where motorsport is heading. 

Plus some are saying they want us minions off the roads which I can believe to an extent. However with most of us off the roads to government would lose one of its main revenue sources. Let's not forget that only a third of road tax is actually used to fix/upgrade the road network

 

 

Hi Steve to the best of my knowledge most innovations in F1 if successful in that application pretty soon appear on mass produced road vehicles, for example vented discs/ceramic brake pads, Dot 5 Brake fluid, ceramic discs, Gas Oil shock absorbers, Turbo technology, High performance engine oil/Petrol, the manufacturers are standing in line to buy the technology if proven, as if it will take that sort of beating on a track in theory a cheaper made version will last a long time on a road car, take your Audi for example, there must have been a fearsome about of research went in to selecting and developing the components on that model.

Steve.

[Steve Q]

1 hour ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Steve to the best of my knowledge most innovations in F1 if successful in that application pretty soon appear on mass produced road vehicles, for example vented discs/ceramic brake pads, Dot 5 Brake fluid, ceramic discs, Gas Oil shock absorbers, Turbo technology, High performance engine oil/Petrol, the manufacturers are standing in line to buy the technology if proven, as if it will take that sort of beating on a track in theory a cheaper made version will last a long time on a road car, take your Audi for example, there must have been a fearsome about of research went in to selecting and developing the components on that model.

Steve.

Exactly so fingers crossed synthetic fuel is the way forward. Or as keith.has pointed out hydrogen could be an option. What ever vehicle drive option they chose it has to be something that has least impact on driver's behaviour. Which involves us filling up in 2 minutes and driving off and being able to drive for 600-1000 miles on a single tank. Unfortunately electric cars are at least 10 years away from this. Whereas synthetic fuel or hydrogen fuel would give you that range instantaneously. 

Plus for synthetic fuel or hydrogen there's less change required to infrastructure. You just need extra pumps and tanks at fuel stations. This would be cheaper which is better for the economy as well as having less impact on the environment. 

[Shytot]

I'm bit late I think on this but agree with the general sentiment. 

A couple of observations:

Batteries lose their efficiency - the 2nd and 3rd hand market is dead for EVs

If it costs you £10 and 90 minutes to get recharged then even at £20 an hour for your time that's £30 more plus £10 for anything from a service station. 

EVs and especially E-Trons are popular middle management company cars - no taxes through PAYE, road tax, fuel tax - no government revenue - that is unsustainable. 

Everybody charging vehicles from energy supplied solely by the sun and the wind - unsustainable (in the real world) 

Much like climate scientology I can make those statements and I don't have to prove them - it's all opinion / belief. 

Then we have the safety aspect

Lion batteries are a fire hazard - so don't park your EV in your garage. 

Hydrogen is even worse. 

 

My money is on cars powered by unicorn sh! t and fairy dust - at least that way we all live happily ever after! 

[ekimj10]

Many thanks to Stagn8 for posting the interview with JCB chairman, totally fascinated with the content and one which all politicians should watch. The total reliance on electricity is totally out of order in this country, the power generation strategy programme over the last 20 odd years has been woeful, we  have the lowest power stand by we have ever had, and to think it can be solved by windmills, solar and tidal power stations is a misconception. One new nuclear station due to be commissioned in a few years time and closure of fossil fired stations and aging nuclear stations has been ill thought out. Our source of power importing from France I think is fragile with our relationship with them disappearing fast. Apologies for the rant, it's something I have a little knowledge about having worked in the industry for all my working life.

[Steve Q]

Just to add. The current life expectancy of a car is an average of 13 years. I can see this going down to 7 years as most electric cars will be worthless at the 8 year old mark as most have warranties on batteries for 8 years. After that you're on your own and they're around 10k to buy new batteries. Not to mention the extra pollution caused from mining the precious metals for the batteries abd the slave labour used to mine the precious metals too. It's a con. 

An electric car has polluted more in it's construction than a conventional car. So how's that greener? I do believe people that buy electric cars have either fallen for the con or care more about their wallet than the environment. 

The government agenda is to change our preference on what drives our vehicles to tax us more. This happens ever 20 or so years. For example petrol cars were most common right through to the late 80s-early 90s. Then the government decided that diesel was greener as it was more economical. So persuaded people into diesel cars. Then mid teenies they decided that the nitrates in diesel were more dangerous so have been pushing people back to petrol. But petrol is bad for the environment because of xyz. 

So now they want us all to have electric cars. But in 10-15 years the government will decide that due to a shortage of the previous metals and the the fact the mining. Is damaging to the environment they will tell everyone electric cars are bad abd will persuade everyone into synthetic fuel vehicles. 

I'm sure hydrogen will come into the equation too at some point. It's not about saving the planet. It's about taxing us more and more.

[ekimj10]

Well said Steve, couldn't agree more! 

The cost of electric vehicles is way too high for most and the lack of new cars due to 'shortages' means the used market values will remain high, mine for example would seem to worth more now than what I paid a year ago. Strange times indeed.

 

 

[Steve Q]

3 hours ago, ekimj10 said:

Well said Steve, couldn't agree more! 

The cost of electric vehicles is way too high for most and the lack of new cars due to 'shortages' means the used market values will remain high, mine for example would seem to worth more now than what I paid a year ago. Strange times indeed.

 

 

Very strange times. As I say I have the brochure for my a6 which states how green it is. Ironically my a6 will have out lived a lot of first generation electric cars so it is more environmentally friendly! 

[Stevey Y]

7 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Very strange times. As I say I have the brochure for my a6 which states how green it is. Ironically my a6 will have out lived a lot of first generation electric cars so it is more environmentally friendly! 

Hi Steve as you pointed out its all about the TAX, I still think it will make hysterically funny viewing when they try to tell the car owners in America they can't drive their Dodge Rams and Ford Rangers anymore, what you have to factor in is the fact that a large percentage of this country know nothing about cars except how to steer them and a lot of them have problems with that and will buy whatever they are coerced in to purchasing because the government says its better than what they had before, prime examples are people who have already purchased Hybrid Audis are already posting problems that no one really knows any definitive answer to, these poor souls are trapped in their own little universe between main dealers who won't give them answers because they don't really know and want to land them with an eye watering bill why they practice on the customers car, then us who simply don't know, or from my perspective don't want to, come on guys do your homework rather than being worried about how cool you will be with an electric/hybrid car no one in the real world gives a rats !Removed! about green credentials, its about the survival of your future lifestyle with your family, do you realistically want to mortgage a car, anyone who wants to buy a car if they have any sense will ask themselves the following, will the family fit in to it and if so what are the running costs, are repairs and servicing going to be affordable, can I fix small problems myself with help/advice, if the answer is none of the above go buy electric/hybrid and you get life membership to the I just bought the latest LEMON club, google in about the field just outside Paris with redundant Renaults etc where the batteries have died and they don't know what to do with them, no available disposal plan.

Steve.

[Steve Q]

1 hour ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Steve as you pointed out its all about the TAX, I still think it will make hysterically funny viewing when they try to tell the car owners in America they can't drive their Dodge Rams and Ford Rangers anymore, what you have to factor in is the fact that a large percentage of this country know nothing about cars except how to steer them and a lot of them have problems with that and will buy whatever they are coerced in to purchasing because the government says its better than what they had before, prime examples are people who have already purchased Hybrid Audis are already posting problems that no one really knows any definitive answer to, these poor souls are trapped in their own little universe between main dealers who won't give them answers because they don't really know and want to land them with an eye watering bill why they practice on the customers car, then us who simply don't know, or from my perspective don't want to, come on guys do your homework rather than being worried about how cool you will be with an electric/hybrid car no one in the real world gives a rats !Removed! about green credentials, its about the survival of your future lifestyle with your family, do you realistically want to mortgage a car, anyone who wants to buy a car if they have any sense will ask themselves the following, will the family fit in to it and if so what are the running costs, are repairs and servicing going to be affordable, can I fix small problems myself with help/advice, if the answer is none of the above go buy electric/hybrid and you get life membership to the I just bought the latest LEMON club, google in about the field just outside Paris with redundant Renaults etc where the batteries have died and they don't know what to do with them, no available disposal plan.

Steve.

Exactly the who scheme of disposal and repair hasn't been thought through. I did seriously look at converting the a6 to run of chip fat/cooking oil (or similar) however I think the a6 fuel pump won't cope. To do this id need an old Merc diesel preferably a w124 250d. But that's too old to use daily due to higher running costs of parts wearing out due to age. 

[Stevey Y]

19 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Exactly the who scheme of disposal and repair hasn't been thought through. I did seriously look at converting the a6 to run of chip fat/cooking oil (or similar) however I think the a6 fuel pump won't cope. To do this id need an old Merc diesel preferably a w124 250d. But that's too old to use daily due to higher running costs of parts wearing out due to age. 

Hi Steve, with regard to the chip oil I went into that myself and what was required, basically you would need to have your own small refinery in the back garden and then the purchase of the additives to make real Bio Diesel, the cost did not quite make it a going proposition as unless you were going into major production the savings were minimal which is why McDonalds who run their lorries on their waste oil get it blended at a refinery which in view of the volume makes it a cheap option.

We then came to the tale of the Bio Diesel plant that opened up on an industrial estate next to my local garage, at 30p a litre cheaper than them I thought it would start a price war, WRONG, the garage was not getting in to a Dutch Auction with the Bio boys because they already knew what was going to happen, Shell makes fuel at a refinery and it has to reach stringent criteria to be sold, look at the Tesco fiasco a few years ago when an over treated batch of fuel was terminating the customers engines.

I digress, in the event everyone and their dog was making a beeline for the Bio boys outlet, this went on for most of the summer then when the world cooled down thats when the fun started a lot of my fellow cabbies were using Bio and were suddenly experiencing loads of limp mode, one of them asked me to plug his in to find any faults, virtually all the 1.8 tdci and 2.0 tdci I  plugged into that day had the same problem, low fuel pressure which begs the question how can so many HPFPs fail at once, the answer was in the first one I changed the fuel filter on it and it  was full of what appeared to be black Rowntrees jelly, because most of the early Mondeos had the filter housing hanging down by the rear subframe and open to the elements and whatever was in the Bio solidified and inhibited the fuel flow, new filter and a clean out of the filter housing produced miraculous results, the moral of the story is if its that cheap, why is it that cheap, you wouldn't give your family recycled food waste.

Steve.

[Steve Q]

3 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Steve, with regard to the chip oil I went into that myself and what was required, basically you would need to have your own small refinery in the back garden and then the purchase of the additives to make real Bio Diesel, the cost did not quite make it a going proposition as unless you were going into major production the savings were minimal which is why McDonalds who run their lorries on their waste oil get it blended at a refinery which in view of the volume makes it a cheap option.

We then came to the tale of the Bio Diesel plant that opened up on an industrial estate next to my local garage, at 30p a litre cheaper than them I thought it would start a price war, WRONG, the garage was not getting in to a Dutch Auction with the Bio boys because they already knew what was going to happen, Shell makes fuel at a refinery and it has to reach stringent criteria to be sold, look at the Tesco fiasco a few years ago when an over treated batch of fuel was terminating the customers engines.

I digress, in the event everyone and their dog was making a beeline for the Bio boys outlet, this went on for most of the summer then when the world cooled down thats when the fun started a lot of my fellow cabbies were using Bio and were suddenly experiencing loads of limp mode, one of them asked me to plug his in to find any faults, virtually all the 1.8 tdci and 2.0 tdci I  plugged into that day had the same problem, low fuel pressure which begs the question how can so many HPFPs fail at once, the answer was in the first one I changed the fuel filter on it and it  was full of what appeared to be black Rowntrees jelly, because most of the early Mondeos had the filter housing hanging down by the rear subframe and open to the elements and whatever was in the Bio solidified and inhibited the fuel flow, new filter and a clean out of the filter housing produced miraculous results, the moral of the story is if its that cheap, why is it that cheap, you wouldn't give your family recycled food waste.

Steve.

Very good points. I was thinking of this route for sustainability. But it looks like its no good on my a6 anyway. Older simpler diesel engines it'll work on. I appreciate that doesn't help cabbies as the cars it'll work on are well over 30 years old.