Rusty underside, possible damage?

[Sercia]

Hello everyone!
I'm seeking advice from you experts to help me on what to do.
In December I bought a 2009 audi a4 avant s-line with around 122k on clock. I brought the car to my trusted mechanic for an inspection. And what he discovered is now not letting me sleep. 
Statement from the mechanic:
It is apparent that this car has been submerged in muddy water for a period of time at some point. There is a dried film of mud on the underside of the car and half way up the engine and gearbox. There is also a lot of corrosion to the underside body panels which is unusual for a car of this age and make. There is also a lot of muddy debris that has collected in various places. Also, there are couple of small rusty/muddy areas in the boot floor area.
I contacted the dealer who sold me the car as soon as I got the news. He asked for photos, I sent him and not further contact from his side. I had to chase him to contact me back several times. I got fed up, I contacted citizen advice, they advised me to sent a letter requesting a refund etc. Under consumer rights act 2015, so I did, specifically saying is not of satisfactory quality . Again no news from the dealer, had to chase them. After some calling we spoke again where he made review the photos with his workshop and they said that the rust is normal for this car and the car is passing MOT without any advisories. At the end we agreed for another inspection from his side but we never heard back from him. Now I'm thinking to send another letter standing my foot on refund before making a court claim. 

SOO... guys, help me determine if photos taken by my mechanic are really that bad as he's saying. Do you think I can win this "war" if I will go to court? Or maybe this damage is still not enough to be eligible to "satisfactory quality". Any estimated repair costs? Anything... help a damsel in distress

[Magnet]

Hello Dominica,

Excuse the lack of pleasantries at the moment. 
Could you please let us know the date the car was last MOT’d please? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Sercia]

Sure! 06.07.21.

[Magnet]

Hello Dominica,

Thanks for being in touch, and sorry to hear of your issue with this car.

I asked for the MOT date to see if it was tested within the last three months, which I understand to be the time limit within which you can challenge the validity of the test in terms of unacceptable structural corrosion. Unfortunately, it’s too late in this case. 
I would agree with your garage’s opinion of the car - based on your photos -  but of course, anyone on here would need to have access to the car to fully assess the true extent and severity. 

I think you have done the right thing in taking advice from CAB, and acting on it, and yes, if the dealer is not prepared to take the car back and fully refund you, then yes, the small claims court is a way forward. 

However, this is not going to come cheap, since you will need to get a professional report on the car - and this is likely to cost in excess of £150, and you would need that assessor to be available at court to be questioned (again an added cost). If you win - and the chances are you would - then you still have to get your money off the seller, and as I understand it, that might not be as simple as it would seem. Sorry to be pessimistic, but as they say, plan for the worse, and hope for the best. 

Of course, a cheaper way forward in terms of assessing the car would be to present it for an MoT now, and use that as evidence. Downside:- if the car fails (as you would expect it to do) then you cannot continue to use it. So you have a difficult choice between these two courses of action, as I see it.

Would you be able to do without use of the car if you go down the MOT route? 
 

On the Devil’s advocate approach, did you make any attempt to look underneath the car before you agreed to buy it? If you didn’t, then this could be considered as unusual, and somewhat remiss on your part, and it could be said that you are not blame free in terms of the situation you now find yourself in. Yes, harsh, but be prepared for this. 
 

For what it’s worth:- Did you buy the car locally? Did you look at it before agreeing to buy it? Exactly how did the seller  word their advertisement? Is the seller a small or large car sales concern? 
Hope some of this helps, and perhaps you would be kind enough to colour in the additional bits of detail for us.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Sercia]

Hi Gareth! 

Thank you very much for getting back to me.

One thing I did right is not to give back my car for part exchange when buying this car. I'm not driving the car in question at all as I don't want to put more mileage on it or anything, so the MOT option is a go for me to try. My concern is that from what I know, you can't present the car for MOT test earlier then one month before the MOT expire date. Or is there a chance with my current situation?

I bought the car around 25mil from home, I did look at it, I tested it, inside it's really well maintained, I would never suspect the other side condition. Well, to be totally honest I didn't lay on the ground to check it under (yep, lesson learned, dumb me), it didn't even pass my mind. The seller is a small car sale concern, he insisted that is nothing wrong with the car as I made a lot of questions. Unlucky for me I don't have the copy of the advert but I requested it from AutoTrader. I found as well another site where there's a part of the description.
" + FSH CAMBELT B & O SOUND +-EXCELLENT CONDITION INSIDE OUT, LOOKS AND DRIVES SUPERB, FULL SERVICE HISTORY INCLUDING CAMBELT AND WATERPUMP REPLACEMENT AT 77K ...", anyway, there wasn't any hint of this problem nor the dealer hint anything about it.

[Magnet]

Hello Dominica,

Many thanks for the useful additional information. 
Point for point:- Great that you are not using it - that will aid your case.

                           ‘Can’t present the car for MOT earlier than one month…….’ Not correct as I understand it. e.g. You get stopped by the police who suspect the car is unroadworthy, and you have to present it for MOT to prove whether it is or not. Are you confusing the ‘one month before…’ with the fact that if you present it for an MOT within one month of the expiry of the current MOT then the expiry of the new MOT is extended to the expiry date of the current one. 

Any MOT testers on here to confirm or refute that’s? 
Well worth you checking with VOSA.

Advert description - ‘Excellent condition inside and out…’ = what it says, and that trade description must be proved to be correct. 
Do you have a V5 for the car yet? If so, check that it’s not endorsed as an insurance total loss. 

It would be worth you paying a modest cost to have the car ‘HPI’ checked, unless you did before buying. 
 

Boiling this down, I would seriously be going down the route of presenting the car for MOT. 
Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s. Did you negotiate the price of the car down? If so, was there any chance that you were informed that you were then buying it on a trade or similar basis? 

[Stevey Y]

Hi under current legislation you can take a car in for MOT any time you like, example being I took my cab in today for its first of two MOTs this year nobody at VOSA bats an eyelid, I must admit most of the debris would be milage/age related and the sump shield has had a grounding recently as for the rust that would suggest the previous owner lived near the seaside, that was one of the first jobs I did when I got my car, cleaned off the road dirt on any exposed areas of paint and gave them a couple of coats of Waxoyl underseal, I can't see how you missed the sill corrosion as that would have given me the diving submarine klaxon mentally and I would have to go underneath to see what lay beyond, the rust is classed as heavy surface and if it won't push through with light pressure its classed as sound, on the other side the corroded sills would never have passed the MOT at the garage I use as they are structural in so much as the chassis is Monocoque, one piece, last but not least its always worth considering an AA inspection if you are not sure when buying a car they don't miss a trick.

Steve

[Sercia]

Hi Steve !

Thank you for letting me know. I will book the car for MOT ASAP. I'm not a clever person when comes to buying the cars, now we know that, heavy lesson for me. Now if per any chance I will win this battle and get my money back so on the next purchase I will take an army with me. The HPI check is clear: " Licence plate and VIN not recorded by insurers as a 'total loss' (write-off), not recorded as a repaired insurance 'total loss'. 

I didn't negotiate the price down. Payed full price as advertised.

1 hour ago, Magnet said:

If so, was there any chance that you were informed that you were then buying it on a trade or similar basis?

I'm sorry but I don't understand, could you please explain it to me?

 

Anyway, thank you guys for your help, you can't imagine how I appreciate it. When I will be back from MOT I will update you ASAP.

[Magnet]

Hello Dominica,

Your are very welcome to all the advice given on here, since no one wants to see anyone in difficulties. 
The MOT should provide you with acceptable evidence to be able to proceed with a claim on this since it represents a specified acceptable standard for any vehicle. As such, I cannot see any Small Claims judge questioning the validity of the test you are about to get done. 
If it were me, I would be notifying the seller ( by e-Mail will do) that you are going to take it for an MOT and  you will forward them copy of the outcome. 
Since the date of sale and the mileage you have covered since purchase will be relatively close, I would consider it reasonable to claim that the condition of the car as bought will be close enough to the condition as tested. 
If the car fails on corrosion or any other major defects, I would beware of any desire the seller may express to have the car back to carryout their own assessment. If things get difficult then just tell them that you are referring the matter to Trading Standards. 
You may find yourself having to pay to get the car transported back to the seller, but…. 
Perhaps you would let us know how you get on.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Sercia]

Hi there again,

I had the car in today for MOT and they PASS it without even any advisories.. 

I'm starting to thinking maybe isn't THAT bad. I don't know what to do anymore. Would it cost a lot to clean that mess up? 🤔 

[Stevey Y]

2 hours ago, Sercia said:

Hi there again,

I had the car in today for MOT and they PASS it without even any advisories.. 

I'm starting to thinking maybe isn't THAT bad. I don't know what to do anymore. Would it cost a lot to clean that mess up? 🤔 

Hi, not if you are prepared to get the car on ramps to ease access to the underside and get dirty removing all visible rust and coating it with Waxoyl underseal I would employ a reasonable bodyshop to repair the sills as they may need to cut out the rusted area and replace with new steel fillets which cuts down the use of excessive body filler as the filler if to thick absorbs moisture and rots out more of the sill, I wish you luck and please let us know how you get on.

Steve.