Timing belt snapped on 3yr old Q2

[Pippy]

I have a 191 Audi Q2…. Ordered a Q4 August 2021 for delivery January 2022…still no delivery of Q4 nearly 47 weeks from ordering and paying deposit. 3 years and 4 months my timing belt has snapped with 49,000 km on clock….clearly faulty… Audi says not under warranty…tough luck…dealership where buying new Q4 have said tough luck…where do I stand…I shouldn’t still own the Q2 and yet Audi don’t care…any advice…I’m living in Dublin, Ireland 

[Steve Q]

Welcome to the forum you'll find the members on here are a friendly and helpful bunch. Sorry to hear of your situation. I'm assuming it's got full Audi service history? When should the belt be changed? On the Q2 the Cambelt interval should be 5 years or 75k. They're trying to have you on. In the UK we have the motoring ombudsman. I'm sure the Republic of Ireland will have something similar. 

[Magnet]

Hello Pippy,

Very sorry to hear of your issue, and I must say, your case sounds complex, and as Steve points out, your legal standing will be governed by the EU I guess - which might be to your benefit? 
Academic point in your case, but the all important caveat to Steve’s quote on cambelt change intervals of 5 years or 75K miles, is ‘whichever comes first’ - most important.

In your case - it doesn’t matter, since the original belt is only 3 and a third years old, and the car has only covered approx. 30K miles, so it would not be scheduled for change for another year and 8 months - so this must be considered to be premature failure. 

Personally, I see this as a very complex case, and one where I’m sure you are going to need professional legal advice. 
To better understand the your chances of a satisfactory outcome:- 

Has the car been maintained by a main dealer, at the recommended intervals, and hasn’t been presented for service at any point when its actually been overdue - even slightly?

Could you let us know on this? 

Have you at any point been advised that the cambelt assembly needs changing? Unlikely, but let’s ask anyway. 

 Do you have written copies of all the service invoices? 
If not, I would be now asking for copies from the servicing dealer. 

Was the car bought on any form of PCP (plan) or any other finance arrangement? If so, over how many years?

If PCP, over a fixed time plan, and that period has now been passed, have you been given a new extended contract to sign? 

I think that’s enough questions for now Pippy, and perhaps you could come back to us with the answers, and we should be able to suggest the next steps to take. 
Evidence will be king here, and personally, I wouldn’t suggest any ‘guns blazing’ approaches until you have all your evidence in front of you.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

 

 

[Magnet]

Apologies for even more questions Pippy:- 

Confirm the car is equipped with stop/start system?

It works, or has worked for most of the car’s life? 
What your typical average weekly journey plan is ? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Pippy]

 

 

Hi there

Thanks for replies - answers to questions as follows:

Has the car been maintained by a main dealer, at the recommended intervals, and hasn’t been presented for service at any point when its actually been overdue - even slightly? My first two services were carried out by my local garage but all Audi parts etc were used. As i was getting my new car in January, then March, then May, then August  - no service has been done for year 3 - 

Have you at any point been advised that the cambelt assembly needs changing? Unlikely, but let’s ask anyway.  No

 Do you have written copies of all the service invoices? Yes 
If not, I would be now asking for copies from the servicing dealer. 

Was the car bought on any form of PCP (plan) or any other finance arrangement? If so, over how many years? Yes PCP - I am currently on bridging with PCP til August as my PCP ended in April and with the delay of Q4 was extended

If PCP, over a fixed time plan, and that period has now been passed, have you been given a new extended contract to sign? PCP was for 3 year and bridging now til August

 

Confirm the car is equipped with stop/start system? Sorry not quite sure - i use a actual key to start car but engine does stop when stationery? Is that what you mean?

It works, or has worked for most of the car’s life? Never had a days problem
What your typical average weekly journey plan is ? probably about 200km a week

[Magnet]

Thanks Pippy,

It’s correct to say that this belt should not have broken, and a full set of dealer servicing records would be your perfect let out.

Unfortunately it does not have that, so we begin to give Audi some wiggling room here. The back and front of it is they can rightly claim it does not have ‘full service history’. 
You say it was serviced under warranty by your local garage using Audi parts and we take it they can confirm the oils used fully satisfied Audi specs and were approved by them. Also that the garage is VAT registered, and it would be interesting to know if they had the on line link up facility to record their service work on to Audi’s on line record, since this will be Audi’s first port of call, and if I understand it correctly an on line search of the service history may ( in caps) show that the car hasn’t been serviced at all - according to them. This would represent the blackest scenario if the above is true. 
The failure to service the car in the third year because it was supposed to be going back could reasonably be seen as no defence, and again it gives them wriggle room. To be honest, I’m not really seeing the point of not servicing it when it was due since at hand back, they were likely to penalise you money wise anyway, for not complying with the servicing requirements, so…..

Apologies, all of this is sounding rather black, but I feel it’s better to start out in knowledge of where you case may be weak, so that your legal advisors can understand what they are up against here. 
 

Re. PCP -  so your original contract was for 3 years (elapsed when?), and OK, I can understand that. 
‘Bridging’ - sorry not really familiar with that, but can I take it that is a ‘new, extended’ contract whereby you continue to pay to lease the car for an extra x months? 
Do you know/ can you find out if that contract holds you to maintaining the cars servicing requirement throughout that extended period? 
Did you have to sign for this ‘Bridging’ agreement? 
 

Stop/start? Thanks Pippy, yes you have answered that - simply means the car’s engine stops when the car comes to a halt, and restarts when you want to move off. 
Personally I don’t like it at all, since although it is environmentally good, it’s an engineering disaster waiting to happen! The greatest stress on any engine is in start up and this belt has to endure the continued strain every time the engine shuts down- we will forget about starting the engine with zero oil pressure unless something more sophisticated has been developed. 
Anyway, my feeling is it’s bad news for any belt - but it is what it is and should not have broken. 
One point I would ask on here is:- does anyone know if the change intervals for stop/start engine cambelt has been cut back to allow for the additional  stresses incurred? 
 

Your 200km (125 miles) a week. Mainly a number of short journeys rather than a few longer ones? If short journeys then that is bad news for stop/start systems and belts in particular. 
 

I think all of this will boil own to you needing strong legal representation to minimise Audi’s stance of inadequate servicing  - which probably has nothing to do with it, but…

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Pippy]

Hi Gareth

sorry I was waiting on update from dealership to see exact damage problem and unfortunately they came back to say I need a new engine 🤬

they say they have contacted Audi Ireland to see if a gesture of goodwill can be got but looking at upwards of 10k to be fixed.

regarding my previous services..all VAT registered and have logged service on Audi system so no problems there. I ordered and paid deposit and contract for Q4 on August 13th 2021 for January delivery. Now coming up to 50 weeks and no sign of car. I have emails from dealer with delivery dates of January, then March, April, May, July and still no sign. Q2 was due service in March so only 4 months out…at no time was I advised I needed to be up to date with service history… I was unaware I wasn’t covered by Audi assist without a service but that was my stupidity…no mention of penalty at time of hand over if not serviced. My mechanic has clearly stated that even if I did get this service in March they wouldn’t have checked or gone near the timing belt so even with service..this would have happened

re PCP yes extended til August..at this point likely to run out before Q4 delivery so not sure what happens then as dealership dealt with extension..but yes I signed new pcp contract but have no copy..

My main point is clearly states on Audi website that timing belt lasts for 5years or 75,000 miles…..neither of which I am near…100% this a fault on manufacturing

I await Audi Irelands feedback but guess it’s off to the legal experts….

[Magnet]

Many thanks Pippy,

Yet more questions I’m afraid:- 

Are you certain that the Audi website states that the timing belt lasts 5 years or 75,000 miles?
If so you are home and dry! 
However, if ( as I think it may do) it states that the timing belt should be changed at 5 years or 75,000 miles, then unfortunately that is a completely different interpretation and offers no guarantee that it will last ( in caps) 5 years or 75,000 miles. 
Since you don’t have copy of the extended PCP agreement that you signed, you don’t have any evidence of what servicing responsibilities you accepted and signed for at that time. 
You say that at no time were you advised that you needed to be up to date with service history. This surprises, since I would have thought that that would have formed part of at least the initial PCP agreement that you would have signed. Surely, it would not be expected that Audi would have leased you a car and dismissed your responsibility to have it serviced to schedule. 
I still revert to my original recommended, that I think you need professional legal representation to minimise the risk of being landed with a £10K+ bill. 
Good luck and kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Magnet]

Hello Pippy,

Thought it worth trying to tidy up a few ends, so just wondering what the latest state of play is with your issue - ?

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[Pippy]

Hi Gareth

No huge update..car still not fixed..Audi gesture of goodwill was 100% parts but I’m to pay 30% labour costs so circa €1400…. As car still on PCP have been advised to get finance company involved which is where we at now….and still no delivery of Q4 which has now been sitting in Emden for 8 weeks🙈

[Magnet]

Hello Pippy,

It’s loose ends tidying time, so wondered how you are getting on with this.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[Sue T]

I’ve also had timing belt issues with my Q2 . The bolts came loose - it’s 6 years old but has only done 30000 miles . 
On a much more dangerous note in September there was a problem with one of the fuel injectors and a whole tank of petrol schooshed into the engine . It could have gone up in a ball of flames at any point. Audi were not remotely interested in doing anything about it because it was out of warranty. 
Very luckily I am still alive!

[Magnet]

Hello Sue,

Welcome, many thanks for joining, and sorry to hear you have had an issue

Did your belt continue to ‘operate’ despite the bolts coming loose ( on tensioner?). Did you have the full assembly renewed when this happened? If not, I would strongly advise you do. 
Regrettably, we never heard anything further from Pippy, so we assume she had to make some considerable payment before handing her car back, and receiving her overdue new one. 
If there is a lesson here, it lies within the fact that there maybe a short term financial gain in getting these vehicles serviced during warranty, away from the main dealer ( and I certainly don’t have any allegiance to them), but it can prove to be far more costly in the long run, as the good will lever becomes bendable! 
Once of of warranty? There is little to gain by entrusting servicing to the main dealer. I would rather use a trusted local garage - using quality parts - who will take more time to ensure it’s done well, and not to a labour-time limit. 
Really hope you came out of your problem without too much hassle. 
Perhaps you could let us know.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 
 

[sarah 1712]

I also have an issue with an Audi Q2 - the timing belt has sheared at 39000 miles causing over £10k of damage. 

The car has been owned by us for 2 years bought from an Audi dealership with full Audi service history which it still has! I have raised a complaint with Audi UK as this (as stated above) is premature failure I believe, especially since Audi have updated their service guides now stating timing belts should be replaced at 140,000 miles and no age limit. 

The car is on a 2018 plate and was in for service literally 39 days before this happened.

Audi UK customer service has been shocking. The dealership are trying to help this has been going on now more than 2 weeks. Car is currently at the dealership unable to be used.

What can I do next....

[Magnet]

Hello Sarah, 

I would like to say ‘Welcome to the forum’ but the reason for joining certainly isn’t any justification for that statement to apply. 
Oh dear. The bonus points in your argument sounds to be an impeccable service history ( providing it was so when you bought it), so your claim would not appear to be compromised. 
When you say Audi Customer Services has been shocking, have you formally written to then outlining this issue, and have they replied? 
To cut to the chase, I think you too would benefit from taking appropriate legal advice - start with CAB, and see if they can aid your case. 
Perhaps you could let us know how you get on Sarah. 
Kind regards, 

Gareth. 
p.s. No longer any age limit on belts, and a daft mileage limit. The forum has written about the pitfalls of this. 
Out of a matter of interest, do you allows allow stop/start to be enabled? 

 

 

[sarah 1712]

Hi Gareth,

Thank you for coming back to me so quickly. 

I have raised a complaint over the phone as advised to by Audi. They were at the point of making an offer on a goodwill payment/contribution to the repair and now the case manager is 'uncontactable'. Whenever I call she is unavailable there have been numerous requests for her to call me back and I am still waiting. 

I have been in touch with CAB as you suggest -thank you- and they have provided some advice on action to take so I will do that and see where we get. 

Yes start/stop was enabled! 

I'll let you know how we get on.

Sarah 

[Magnet]

Many thanks Sarah,

If this were mine, I would be dealing with this major issue in writing, rather than over the phone, and recording my day to day responses - or lack of them. It’s not too late to start, so let’s hope that the CAB can be of assistance. 
Confirmed full service history to the point where you bought it? 
What would be your typical journey usage with the car? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[sarah 1712]

Yes full service history, of which I have a printed copy from the dealership. 

Typically does short journey's to and from work etc of about 10 to 12 miles one way. 

[Magnet]

All sounds good and to your advantage Sarah. Sort journeys with - frequent stop/starts? - put additional strain on belts. Very much an engineering averse system is s/s. 
Good luck with getting the appropriate legal advice on how best to deal with this as quickly and efficiently as possible. 
Sorry to ask another question, but any finance involved in the purchase? 
If so formally notify them of this issue, since they obviously have a financial interest in the vehicle, and may aid your case. 
Please let us know how you get on Sarah - we are here to help if we can. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Sue T]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:38 AM, sarah 1712 said:

I also have an issue with an Audi Q2 - the timing belt has sheared at 39000 miles causing over £10k of damage. 

The car has been owned by us for 2 years bought from an Audi dealership with full Audi service history which it still has! I have raised a complaint with Audi UK as this (as stated above) is premature failure I believe, especially since Audi have updated their service guides now stating timing belts should be replaced at 140,000 miles and no age limit. 

The car is on a 2018 plate and was in for service literally 39 days before this happened.

Audi UK customer service has been shocking. The dealership are trying to help this has been going on now more than 2 weeks. Car is currently at the dealership unable to be used.

What can I do next....

Hi Sarah 

I wrote to the MD of Audi Uk last week and it’s now being investigated- it’s been handed over to someone in the executive team so I’m waiting to hear back - will keep you posted but here’s the MD’s email in case you want to contact him. 
andrew.doyle@audi.co.uk

[sarah 1712]

6 minutes ago, Sue T said:

Hi Sarah 

I wrote to the MD of Audi Uk last week and it’s now being investigated- it’s been handed over to someone in the executive team so I’m waiting to hear back - will keep you posted but here’s the MD’s email in case you want to contact him. 
andrew.doyle@audi.co.uk

Hi Sue, 

Pleased to hear they are investigating for you. I will certainly email him too. I have been in touch with Audi Uk no luck they basically said tough. So complaint is now with the motor ombudsman. 
Thanks for sharing the MD’s email - much appreciated.