2011 Q5 3.0 Tdi - Ribbed/serpentine belt - Not a "serviceable part"?

[Hackerjackers]

Hello, I am new here.  I'm hoping that someone can help with this question.

I have had my 2011 Q5 3.0 Tdi since new.  In the 11+ years I've had it, it's yet to reach 37,000 miles i.e. it's low mileage.  I've always had it serviced by the same, local franchised Audi dealer - albeit my nearest branch closed earlier this year; and the car is in good condition.

A week ago, whilst on a short local drive, the ribbed/serpentine belt decided to shred itself whilst I was travelling at low speed.  Having been advised by the AA partrolman not to drive it, my vehicle got recovered to a different branch of the same franchised Audi dealer.  Having agreed to a £155 charge to diagnose the problem (it seemed pretty obvious to me!), I was informed that the required repair work was:

1. replace the ribbed belt, tensioner, relay rollers and alternator pulley (the rollers and pulleys supposedly having been damaged when the belt shredded itself).  Cost= £680
2. replace the vibration damper and oil seal, including bolts and pulley (because bits of the ribbed belt may have got behind the vibration damper).  Cost = £752
3. replace the oil control valve, oil pressure switch and wiring connectors to oil press switch, which had got damaged by the disintegrating ribbed belt.  Cost = £496.

My two questions to my service advisor were: (i) why did the the ribbed belt disintegrate?; and (ii) if it was likely to disintegrate, should it have been replaced as part of the regular servicing?

In response to the first question, he couldn't really offer an answer, other than "wear and tear".   In respect of the second question, he checked the service schedule for this model, and said that replacement of the ribbed belt didn't appear on the service schedule - it was not a "serviceable part".  I naturally queried why a part that is subject to wear and tear wouldn't be a serviceable part - it is really the case that a car like mine could get to, say, 20 years old with 300,000 miles on the clock and the original ribbed belt may never have been replaced as part of normal servicing?  He said yes, that was the case.

This has left me somewhat perplexed.  I imagine that the ribbed belt contains rubber, which perishes over time and, therefore, I think I would expect it to be replaced after the earlier of, say, 50,000 miles or five years.  Or, at the very least, for it to be inspected as part of the normal periodic servicing, and for it to be replaced if it was showing signs of deterioration.

As I understand it, the ribbed belt is a part that costs c. £20 and would take c.20 minutes to replace.  That's maybe a £100-£200 cost with a franchised service centre.  Instead, I'm faced with a repair bill of over £2,000.

So my question to those of you who know more about these things than me is: is it really the case that ribbed belts are only ever replaced once they have broken, even if that risks £2k of damage being done?

[Magnet]

Hello Bill,

Many thanks for joining and posting your plea. 
Sorry to hear of your issue. 
Two things come to mind:-

The car has indeed covered a very low mileage, and as such, in many respects, certain components will have had a far greater hammering than a same aged 150k plus example where components are operating at optimum conditions over an extended mileage. Belts in particular, will suffer to a much greater extent due to short runs and restarts. Not sure if your eleven year old car has stop/start ( probably not) but if it has, then the stresses will obviously be significantly increased. London and traffic! Major aggravation.  Easy to say, but if this car was mine, the belt would have been changed every 5 years. 

Second thing that comes to mind - with apologies for being pointed - anyone who uses a main dealer to service an 11 year old, small annual mileage vehicle demonstrates an unwarranted disrespect for their wallet. Apologies Bill, but that’s how it is in my book. 
 

The debate about ‘scheduled or not scheduled’ is now rather academic, since the component has failed, and your dealership seems to have missed out on their ‘advise belt change - money gathering’ option. 
Way forward:- Get the car removed to a trusted local garage and get them to carryout the necessary work, and entrust your servicing to them. 
It would seem from your posting that the you have sufficient mechanical awareness to ask and understand the answers, so perhaps you could have asked the dealer about such things as the years went by, rather than ‘leaving it all in their capable hands’. Anyway, you seem to have got away with your belt issue quite lightly, so offer thanks for that, and move on to your trusted local garage who will have a reputation to uphold. 
Hope some of this helps, and good luck with it. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Hackerjackers]

Dear Gareth

Thank you for your response.  Apologies that it has taken me so long to reply.  In the intervening period I raised a complaint with Audi UK and Marshall Motor Group, who own the franchise that had serviced my car.

As regards the points you raise, no, the car does not have stop/start and, for the first nine or so years of its life, had been mostly garaged and subject to occasional use at weekends and for long touring holidays.  However, since the pandemic and "work from home", there have been more frequent short journeys.  I take the point that the belt would have been subject to more stresses in those recent years.

Understood about trusting a main dealer.  I guess I believed they had the technicians, tools and the knowhow to ensure the car was kept in top condition, and that that (and a full, Audi service history – I was never sure how long I would keep the car for) was worth paying the extra for, but I now see the error of my ways.  In truth I don’t have much mechanical awareness (albeit I now know more about this particular subject!), hence it would never have occurred to me ask the dealer about things that they weren’t recommending replacing, or to raise the fact that, as the car was aging, was there anything that should have been replaced, but hadn’t.  As you infer, their previous actions suggested that they would have “advised belt change” in order to make money.

In response to my complaint, the dealer said that they rarely see failures of the ribbed belt – supposedly they only see it a couple of times a year.  Apparently, over the last 20 years or so the materials that are used for these belts have changed and, for that reason, they don’t suffer the wear and tear of previous fan belts.  They said that, from their perspective, it was not clear if the belt had failed of its own accord, or if there had been wear on the rollers or pulleys which had caused the belt to disintegrate.  Seems to me that wear on the rollers/pulleys is also something that could have also been picked up at the last service.

Audi UK who, it appears, spoke to the dealer as well, responded by saying that they couldn’t guarantee that components wouldn’t fail, hence why they provide warranties, but apparently they monitor failure rates on all components.  They confirmed that there is no time/distance interval given by Audi for the ribbed belt to be replaced.  Whilst goodwill payments could be made, as the vehicle was over 10 years old, they (both the dealer and Audi UK) were unable to offer any goodwill support.  They said I could refer my complaint to the Motor Ombudsman, but I see little point in doing that.

So, I guess I will just have to put this one down to experience.  It has substantially knocked my trust in Audi and their brand.  I was looking to replace the car, given that I will get clattered by the extension to the London ULEZ (if not for that, I would keep the vehicle and run it into the ground), and would have happily considered any VAG brand.  But now I think I will look elsewhere, and consider other options.  And, when it comes to servicing, try to find a trusted local garage.

Kind regards

Bill

[Magnet]

Hello Bill,

Many thanks indeed for updating the forum on your unfortunate experience. Please don’t apologise for the delay - unfortunately such responses are rare, so are very welcome when they come through.

Having re-read my initial response, it’s I who would like to offer apologies, since I now feel the tone of that reply was unsympathetic towards someone faced with a £2,000 bill through no fault of their own. It may have been was factually correct, but lacked any sympathy. I’m sorry about that. 
I too would have expected this belt (and it’s assembly?) to have been a scheduled change part, and it seems illogically daft that it wasn’t. It wouldn’t surprise me that that might change. Not that it applies to your car, but I advocate changing the serpentine belt when the cambelt is replaced - usually every 75k miles or 5 years - whichever come first. Of course you are correct that such decisions shouldn’t be left to the knowledge of the owner - who like yourself, puts his trust in the expertise of the servicing dealer.

Back to FMDSH. This is a desirable starting point for most owners for correct maintenance, but it is by no means king, and in reality boils down to the vehicle spending a couple of hours in their workshop every year or so. In the meantime, it can suffer from a glorious lack of interested owner attention, never getting its oil, coolant or tyre pressures checked for example. FSH will attract a higher part exchange allowance and an easier sale, but the vehicle may not be that well maintained overall, and certainly has no guarantee of enhanced reliability - as you have unfortunately found. 
For what it’s worth:- Use the main dealer during the 3 year warranty period and supplement this with your own ‘care and checking’ between servicing. After that, use a trusted local garage or independent, and one where you can actually talk with the mechanics to discuss their findings and any concerns you have. Retain all  receipts and service documents in a file along with the vehicle documents. To me, this is evidence of an interested owner’s care, and that is rather priceless. 
Many thanks again Bill,

Kind regards,

Gareth.