A6 fire!

[Wessex89]

Hi all,  My 2019 A6 avant caught fire a month ago while parked on the driveway at home.  Completely destroyed everything combustible forward of the windscreen and generated enough heat to melt the offside alloy suspension components!  Just looking for comments and any history people might be aware of.  The timeline on this is quite interesting and hard to believe in places.  The car was at my local Audi centre three days beforehand for some routine service work, it had not been driven since returning from the Audi centre and caught fire in the early hours of the morning.  Unbelievably the original Audi warranty (3yrs from first registration) expired the day before the fire!   The car is currently waiting for inspection by fire investigators after which we hope to understand the root cause.  I’d be interested if anyone knows of similar cases?

[Stevey Y]

54 minutes ago, Wessex89 said:

Hi all,  My 2019 A6 avant caught fire a month ago while parked on the driveway at home.  Completely destroyed everything combustible forward of the windscreen and generated enough heat to melt the offside alloy suspension components!  Just looking for comments and any history people might be aware of.  The timeline on this is quite interesting and hard to believe in places.  The car was at my local Audi centre three days beforehand for some routine service work, it had not been driven since returning from the Audi centre and caught fire in the early hours of the morning.  Unbelievably the original Audi warranty (3yrs from first registration) expired the day before the fire!   The car is currently waiting for inspection by fire investigators after which we hope to understand the root cause.  I’d be interested if anyone knows of similar cases?

Hi sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but it does rather look as though it may well be Arson, I have driven over a million miles in twenty years and only ever seen two cabs spontaneously combust but those were moving at the time, in thirty years plus of working on cars I have never seen a car thats standing for a couple of days flame up, chocolate bars melting on the seats during the summer, dash cams cooked but this is new and sounds like its had a healthy dose of accelerant, I  wish you luck.

Steve.

[Wessex89]

Over 12 months on from the fire I can post an update on the above.  
We collected enough video coverage of the vehicle to be sure there was no third party intervention leading up to and during the start of the fire in the early hours.   After many hours of discussion over many months with various parties we have concluded that the fire was a result of water ingress into the electrical system caused by high pressure washing during the service intervention three days before.  The ambient temperature on the day of the service was 3-5 degrees below zero.  The theory is that water directed at high pressure at the front of the vehicle entered the engine compartment and likely then the starter/alternator, ECU or associated connections.  This water then froze, due the the ambient temperature at the time, likely damaging plastic housings of either the alternator or plugs/sockets etc.  In the days that followed after the short drive home in subzero conditions the ice thawed as the weather improved and water then caused a catastrophic short circuit in the affected components.  
I must add that we were not able to prove this theory as the damage to the vehicle was too extensive to trace the exact source of the fire, but the heat damage on the alternator and ECU side of the engine was far greater than on the other side.

Without simulating a similar scenario we are unlikely to ever know for sure but the recall history for this vehicle also indicates a known week-point with water ingress into the electrical system.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Wessex89

[Steve Q]

Can't believe this happened, and just highlights the importance of getting water ingress issues sorted asap for other members. So who footed the bill? 

Was it your insurance company or Audi? 

[Magnet]

Many thanks Maidenhead Steve,

I very much understand the (very?) significant disadvantages of using high pressure lances to clean vehicles - I always steer well clear of any situation where this might happen, and on the very rare occasions any owned vehicles have to go into a main, or substantial dealership, I wash the vehicle before hand, and specifically instruct - do not wash vehicle - vacuum only.

You are quite specific in singling out the starter motor and alternator, and my assumption is that you believe that the water ingress was due to the pressure washer directing water at high pressure, through the grille and this water found its way onto, and stayed with, the starter and alternator. I can understand this if the lance was directed horizontally into the grille, as opposed to what would be normal practice of directing it at an angle. 
Again to try to understand this, we would need to consider the distance the car was driven between the point where it was washed and your home. If a few miles, then you might expect the water on the engine would have dried significantly, or at least sufficiently, not to leave pooling water which would subsequently freeze. ECU location on this model? - somewhere where water ingress would hold and freeze? The last point I can make is that although pressures from pressure washers are high, volumes are generally low. 
Apologies Steve, if this comes over as challenging your theory, but I think it would be helpful to fully understand the logic. 
 

Again with apologies - I can’t resist returning to Steve Y’s comment that it was likely caused by arson - if it was, it was probably someone arson about! 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[Wessex89]

Thanks for taking interest in this case, here are more details for you both.

In reply to Steve Q,  

We had a wait of about 8 weeks while the insurance company and Audi UK took the car away for a fire investigation.  I had requested a claim on the (luckily extended) vehicle warranty on the basis that the car was faulty.  The CCTV was shared with all parties and raised further questions over why the car just very slowly started to smoke and burn without any intervention from an arsonist or suchlike.  Understandably both Audi UK and the insurance company were concerned over the recent visit to the service centre.  The service centre were quick to distance themselves from the incident and took the defence that they work on hundreds of Audi’s each year and this sort of thing just doesn’t happen, perfectly understandable defence in my opinion.  After the investigation returned a conclusion that there was no clear indication of a vehicle fault or fault of the service centre the insurance company paid-out promptly and we replaced the car with the same make and model.  

 

In reply to Magnet

You are not the only one to question my thinking on this.  When I look at all the information I just go round and round thinking what on earth could have gone on as no one theory has any solid evidence to back up what happened.  We have just settled on what we think is the “most likely” explanation.  
The focus on the starter/alternator was initially driven by the recall notice R/2020/265 that affected this vehicle.  The paperwork indicated that the unit had be replaced as required by the recall and we have to assume the work was done as stated in 2020.  There doesn’t seem to be any benefit from service centres risking reputations by stamping off work done but not actually replacing faulty parts.  If you research this recall you will see that Audi had some instances of this exact fire event happening and were advising Audi owners not to park their cars in underground car parks or near to buildings due to risk of fire.  This is why I remain convinced of an electrical fault starting the fire.

The cause being attributed to the subzero weather conditions is just a theory based on the reports of the faulty starter/alternator where the casing was cracking allowing water to enter the control PCB.  I remain convinced that freeing water could have damaged a casing or cover in the same way as the in the instances that triggered the original recall notice.  

You asked about the distance travelled from the service centre, this is at least 5 miles.

You mention about the location of the ECU, this is directly above the starter alternator, I have attached a picture, you can see the remains of the ECU handing on the wiring harness.

 

The theory of arson is understandably possible and has been the most common suggestion from the many people who I’ve spoken too but the lack of any third party appearing on the CCTV doesn’t back this up.  Secondly if it was arson the person who did it decided to walk onto our driveway, set fire to the front end of the older of the two Audis parked on the driveway and pick the one with diesel in the tank not the 40litres of petrol in the newer Audi sat right next to it.  Fortunately the newer car survived as I was able to drive it away before the fire really got dangerous.  The fire crew who responded to the 999 call were of the opinion that it was not arson as they arrived to find all the windows intact and doors locked, they commented that it is not easy to start a fire on the front end of a modern car (especially a diesel) without significant amounts of accelerant.  In a nod to the quality of the fire barrier in the bulkhead of the A6, other than water damage the interior of the car was virtually untouched.  I even had items in the glove box that remained in perfect condition, amazing considering the heat in the engine compartment must have topped 400 degrees.  

In every aspect of this case there is no logic to what happened, we have just tried to come to a logical “most likely” explanation.   Perhaps in time someone else might pickup this webpage after a similar experience and shed further light on it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Q]

Thanks for the update, glad insurance paid out promptly 

[ReneR]

Not an Audi owner, so apologies for gatecrashing the forum, but I have a VAG car and the exact same thing just happened to my Skoda Roomster 1.6 TDI this morning and police, fire services and insurance company are completely baffled.

The car was last driven Saturday 11/1/2015 evening with sub-zero temperatures here in London, after a long drive down from the North. No problems, no fault alerts, not problems with the drive or the car, all working super smoothly.

This morning (Monday 13/1/2025) police arrive at the door at 8.10am to report my car round the corner was on fire and asking me to attend the scene.

Like the original post, fire broke out spontaneously in the engine bay at around 7.30am when passers by called the fire service and police.

Passenger cabin and fuel did not catch fire, but the front is entirely burned out and the front of the car is on the ground. Tires suspension all gone.

Police asked for CC-TV footage and said that at around 7.15am the alarm goes off, and then shortly after there are flames and smoke.

Waiting for recovery and removal now, after speaking to the insurance.

Thinking that before the alarm went off, even a short-circuit would have not been possible if the electrics were off. Could the alarm have made the electrics come on and then there was a short-circuit or would the alarm go off because there was a fire?

I am wondering if, like the original poster, some water had got in somewhere and frozen and then with the thawing today triggered some electrical fault.

Old trusted car with plenty of millage, so fear there will be very little from the insurance for it. 

 

[Wessex89]

Hi,

I was really interested to read about your experience today.  I’m sorry however that this has happened in such a similar way with strikingly similar circumstances.

In my case I was able to trace back through the cars history and find that UK recall number R/2020/265 applied to my vehicle, from there we worked on this theory that the likely cause of the fire was an electrical short circuit due to water ingress.  This was based on the information we obtained about the specifics of recall R/2020/265, there were more readily available details in other countries where the same Audi recall triggered a responce.    

You mentioned in your post that all the electrics were off, remember that the starter/alternator (and other ancillary circuits) are permanently connected to the battery.  This is what the Audi recall was all about, the fact that moisture in the starter/alternator was able to create a short circuit even when the vehicle was parked and locked. In the US for example owners were told not to park their vehicles in underground carparks until the recall work had been completed. 

I recommend doing a bit of research, you might perhaps find something that will give a little peace of mind if nothing else.

I hope the insurance pays out for you.  Car fires like this are incredibly rare, however since my experience of this I have taken great interest in any similar scenarios that have come to my attention.

[ReneR]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and share your research in such detail. It is much appreciated.

Police, fire service, my insurance, and I were all completely dumbfounded by the event. The police have filed a report including the CCTV they looked at, so hoping that is enough for the insurance, but as I wrote, it is an old car (14 years) and with 160k miles on the clock, so not expecting much from them.

But as you write, it is also about understanding what actually happened as I was completely baffled by the event. Might also help provide some basis for a hypothesis I can provide to the insurance company if necessary.

[ReneR]

On 1/13/2025 at 9:22 PM, Wessex89 said:

Hi,

I was really interested to read about your experience today.  I’m sorry however that this has happened in such a similar way with strikingly similar circumstances.

In my case I was able to trace back through the cars history and find that UK recall number R/2020/265 applied to my vehicle, from there we worked on this theory that the likely cause of the fire was an electrical short circuit due to water ingress.  This was based on the information we obtained about the specifics of recall R/2020/265, there were more readily available details in other countries where the same Audi recall triggered a responce.    

You mentioned in your post that all the electrics were off, remember that the starter/alternator (and other ancillary circuits) are permanently connected to the battery.  This is what the Audi recall was all about, the fact that moisture in the starter/alternator was able to create a short circuit even when the vehicle was parked and locked. In the US for example owners were told not to park their vehicles in underground carparks until the recall work had been completed. 

I recommend doing a bit of research, you might perhaps find something that will give a little peace of mind if nothing else.

I hope the insurance pays out for you.  Car fires like this are incredibly rare, however since my experience of this I have taken great interest in any similar scenarios that have come to my attention.

Interesting development with my insurance claim. Seems that my insurance company is looking to claim costs from the manufacturer and have initiated an official dispute. Wonder if their salvage contractor was able to identify the cause. Would be good to know, also in terms of warning other users of cars with similar design/build. If they are successful, I would also get the excess back from the insurance. Not a big deal, but would help with the unexpected expenditure resulting from the incident.   

They have actually settled the claim with me for just under £2,000 which I think is fair for a 13 year old car with 166K miles on the clock.

Edited Monday at 10:46 AM by ReneR

[Steve Q]

Glad you got your pay out. Will be interesting to see how the insurance company gets on with their dispute