Alternator failure related to mild hybrid system?

[SteveHBerkshire]

Hello

My Q8 diesel MHEV shut down on me after a blizzard of warning lights. I disengaged drive and engine stopped therefore no pwr steering. It's with Audi Amersham and I'm expecting it is the alternator as it would start off a jump battery, but stopped immediately it was disconnected. I've seen that this is a 'known problem' and Audi USA have extended the warranty on this item. I'm waiting for the technicians to confirm it is the Alternator. I've not discussed with the Service department what I have just discovered online and let's see if they try and hit me with a massive bill? 

[Mark2]

Audi uk have also extended the warranty to 7 years from date of registration so do not let your dealer fob you off.

[RazzeBlade]

Is it wrote anywhere that Audi UK have extended the warranty to 7 years? That is the issue I am currently having with Audi as they are saying that my alternator has no extended warranty.

[MikeyW]

I’ve spoken to Audi customer services at length about this issue. They push everything back to the dealership. Audi UK will not or cannot confirm there is an issue with the alternator. Audi Uk will not or cannot confirm whether there is an extended warranty on the part. And they will not or cannot confirm whether the replacement parts being fitted have the issue resolved or will simply fail again. 
 

I’m not entirely sure what they are there for as they simply deny any responsibility as they didn’t sell me the car and are not responsible for it’s maintenance and safety - this they say is the dealership and the manufacturer. This despite them being a wholly owned subsidiary of Audi Germany. 

Audi Uk maintain that technical queries should be answered by the dealership who will contact the manufacturer. 
 

My dealer replaced the part and confirmed to me that it has an extended warranty and that the part and labour are covered by Audi. 7 years was also confirmed. My car is 3.5 years old and does have an extended Audi warranty on it but this was not used to cover the part.
 

So the route to solve this seems to be entirely via the dealerships. Mine have been superb I have to say.
 

hugely disappointed in Audi UK but I’m not surprised by this to be honest 

[Worried of Yorkshire]

18 plate Q7. 75,000 miles. Diesel.
 

Total failure in middle of ‘smart’ section of M1, fortunately in roadworks and fairly slow traffic. Unable to get out of middle lane. After 10 minutes of nervous waiting traffic officers managed to block two lanes and drag car to refuge.

Dealership has confirmed alternator needs replacement.

Only prior warning was about 10 miles before failure when message (in non urgent Orange) advised electrical fault, refer to dealer !

Now waiting to see how long the ‘back order’ will take.

So, if you were in the traffic jam by Castle Donington on Tuesday evening, sorry. If there had been prior warning of low charge I wouldn’t have been on the motorway.

[Mark2]

Sorry to hear another tale of woe. Audi told me they no longer have a ‘no charge’ warning lamp as it is no longer a European requirement. Another law made up by some bureaucrat in Brussels who goes to work on a bike.

[CSMT]

Greetings. First post and a copy of what I posted on FB. This will not be news to most of you - but just to add to the thread. 

Greetings! First post and I don't want to start on a negative... but  I have a 2022 C8 RS6 and it is a great car. Prior to this I had a RS5, then before than a C7 RS6 and so on.

The subject of this post I think has been discussed in various groups (probably), I did a quick search in this group and did not come up with much - but forgive me if this is old news. Even if it is, it was worth a reminder of the catastrophic failure that might await anyone with a 2000 onwards car with the 48V alternator / mild hybrid / stop start system. I have this on my RS6, but it is not unique to RS cars.

Before I describe the issue I should state that I think many of us get used to the "glitches" that these modern cars can have from time to time. The odd warning that comes up "suspension fault"- normally solved by stopping car, locking up and having a coffee, going back and starting - and all is good from then on.

Last Thursday. Starts OK - Berkshire down to Exeter. Then back onto the M5 to head up towards Manchester. Came off at services for break, waiting to get back on M5 the car would not auto-start and I had a "stop start" failure yellow light. Onto the motorway. Shortly I then got a yellow "electrical system fault - take car to workshop". Still on the M5 I decided to proceed to next services. Stopped. Had a coffee. Back at the car the faults had cleared as expected (!). Onwards.

Within 10 minutes the two faults appeared again, and a third fault "sports differential" - all so far with the 'visit workshop' advice. Then the car front screen began to mist up. The aircon was on, but the blower was confined to low speed. Opened the windows to clear the mist, little did I know that the car was slowing closing down.

A few more miles up the M5 and more yellow warning - suspension failure, electrical system failure. By now I am getting worried but still wondering if these could be cleared with a longer break at services. And then RED warning - critical systems failure - stop vehicle now. Do I go into hard shoulder? What if it was a smart motorway. I note there is a services 2 miles ahead so I head for that using inside lane. Got into the lane off the motorway and managed to get into the parking area - looking for a space. Then the power steering failure occurred (red warning) - I am now in slow traffic flow, trying to turn right into a space and the steering is really heavy. Then there was the transmission failure (red warning) - and that was it. Car stopped and died. My hazard lights did work  But why do drivers still beep and wave angrily at you as if I am doing this for fun?!

Called Audi Assist (AA). Cannot fault the service here. The mobile AA came out. We managed to start / move the car by using a battery pack - just enough elec to get car safely parked - then it died again. We tried charging the 12 volt battery - but soon found it was not being charged by the 48V alternator (voltage is stepped down for charging). So it was a flat bed 2.5 hour trip back to Berkshire. The car is now at local Audi dealer. Findings so far (some from dealer, some from internet search).

1. It is the 48V alternator / start stop system.
2. It is covered under my standard 3 year warranty (good job it is expensive).
3. Also covered under a little known (to many) 7 year unlimited miles special warranty.
4. It is a known issue within Audi. I am not sure if the faulty / badly designed unit has been fixed, or if they are just replacing with current manufactured units - I think the 7 year warranty says is all....

So there we have it. If you have this 48V hybrid system on your Audi you might want to check the warranty. As far as I can tell there has been no recall in the UK.

Yes - I could have stopped the car earlier on the motorway hard shoulder. But this all happened over a few minutes (the final failure phase). The car completely fails and it feels a dangerous situation to me - so please take note!

Happier posts to follow in the future.

 

(Ps still being fixed so I will report back when I have the car back).

[Mark2]

Your fault sequence absolutely mirrors the one on my RS6. I too have decided, having gone through this once I have bought at my expense a spare alternator, which I will carry with me, next time this fault sequence starts it’s an AA recovery to any old garage and they can replace the alternator then Audi can replace the faulty one so I always have a spare.

[RKaur]

Hi, has anyone had any further luck with Audi re the 48v battery issue? Looking for something more recent.

 

if not, those who had success getting Audi to sort out the issue, who did you contact? The dealership or Audi direct?

 

We now find ourselves in the same situation with a Q7 which is out of warranty, so any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Mark2]

I am sorry to say that Audi have closed their ears to this. They are just dealing with individual complaints because we have no cohesive group. 
I have tried to get  Consumer Rights interested but they are not probably because no one has died and it’s such a niche problem.

Beyond the 7 year extn all I can get in terms of compensation is their agreeing to pay 1 year extended Warranty.

if anyone who knows a lawyer who would be willing to take a class action get them to contact us.

[RKaur]

That’s frustrating, but thanks for replying.

 

I wonder if an FOI request will make them step up properly and send out a UK wide TSB?

 

there seems to be enough of us in the UK across the VW group who are having the same issue. But like you said, where US customers have rallied together, there’s not something like that here…yet!

 

[Mark2]

FOI worth a try.

[Steph1234]

1 hour ago, RKaur said:

That’s frustrating, but thanks for replying.

 

I wonder if an FOI request will make them step up properly and send out a UK wide TSB?

 

there seems to be enough of us in the UK across the VW group who are having the same issue. But like you said, where US customers have rallied together, there’s not something like that here…yet!

 

Hi, I was told by Bristol audi (I have it written in an email) that the Q7 are covered under the seven year extended warranty they don’t tell you about unless you push for it. How old is your car? If you purchased the car directly from Audi less than 6 years ago under the consumer rights act 2015 they need to support you. After 9 weeks without my car they did try to help me but it was still a really poor offer and they don’t careless a key component has gone wrong. Audi uk says it’s nothing to do with them as it’s a manufacturing issue. They will only help you if your dealership help. 
I have gone through the motor ombudsman and asked if they can see if my case relates to others (which I’m pretty sure it does) so it can be looked into as a collective. 
 

[Mark2]

Great now we have Mon Motors with a number of cases. My car is 3 years old, the guy who is on the ball at Bath Audi is Simon Gray and he has helped customers who have vehicles in Bristol.

you are right the dealer attitude is ‘ not my problem guv’ this is an Audi design problem we just sell them! Can I contact Audi Germany- yiu can but they will refer it back to the UK - whi have nothing to do with the design!

hence the need to get a group action.

 

 

[Steph1234]

It’s ridiculous and potentially dangerous if driving on fast roads when the fault occurs. 

When I hear back from motor ombudsman next I will let you all know. Group action definitely will have more weight (you’d like to think)

[RKaur]

4 hours ago, Steph1234 said:

It’s ridiculous and potentially dangerous if driving on fast roads when the fault occurs. 

When I hear back from motor ombudsman next I will let you all know. Group action definitely will have more weight (you’d like to think)

Thanks Steph1234. You’re right about the group action though.

When I mentioned what was going on in the US to our local dealer, they did the whole “well the engines are different” etc. Ummmm…your cars are exported from Germany?! I get LHD/RHD differences but can’t imagine major differences. and for the same recurrent issues across the VW group in multiple countries...?!

I expected the pushback and denial tbh.

still waiting to hear back from Audi UK.

[RKaur]

On 7/5/2024 at 4:06 PM, Steph1234 said:

Hi, I was told by Bristol audi (I have it written in an email) that the Q7 are covered under the seven year extended warranty they don’t tell you about unless you push for it. How old is your car? If you purchased the car directly from Audi less than 6 years ago under the consumer rights act 2015 they need to support you. After 9 weeks without my car they did try to help me but it was still a really poor offer and they don’t careless a key component has gone wrong. Audi uk says it’s nothing to do with them as it’s a manufacturing issue. They will only help you if your dealership help. 
I have gone through the motor ombudsman and asked if they can see if my case relates to others (which I’m pretty sure it does) so it can be looked into as a collective. 
 

This is really interesting! Thank you- we’ll keep this in mind when we speak with them next week. 
 

Car is late 2018 plate; we’re second owners, only had it for 2.5 years. 
 

had a look at doing an FOI request but no can do for private companies 🤦🏽‍♀️

[Audi Death Trap]

Below is the letter I recently had published in the Hull Daily Mail.

 

"My Audi A8 came to an abrupt halt in the middle of roadworks during rush hour. All electrics shut down. I was unable to use my hazard warning lights. I was unable to lower my window to shout to a workman nearby. I was unable to exit the vehicle. Literally everything failed. In the event of fire I would have been burned alive which may have delighted some of those hurling abuse. It was almost impossible to recover the vehicle as the wheels were turned towards the kerb and the power steering and steering lock had seized. I eventually had to remain in the vehicle until it was finally dragged diagonally onto the back of a trailer and taken away. The replacement 48v alternator part is unavailable and on back order in Germany due to the sheer scale of vehicle failures that now require it. Apparently looking at online forums it's a case of when rather than if it fails. I could never feel safe in my vehicle again. Watching all those approaching HGVs in my rear view mirror was truly awful. I understand recalls have been issued elsewhere in the world and it's scandalous that this hasn't happened here. Why was my life endangered because Audi technology is not up to the job."

 

Following publication I reported the matter to the Motor Ombudsman and the DVSA. The ombudsman said it fell outside their remit but the DVSA have given Audi UK 28 days to provide a written report explaining how such catastrophic failure was possible. Audi Executive Office only gave me a goodwill gesture of £600 (reduced to £500 due to VAT!) despite the £2,800 total repair cost and the serious risk to my life. To rub salt into the wound I even went out and bought a cheap runaround as I needed my own transport for hospital appointments and my car was miraculously repaired before I even picked it up. I now have two cars. The 28-day deadline is only three days away!

Edited July 8 by Audi Death Trap
Spelling

[MikeyW]

35 minutes ago, Audi Death Trap said:

Below is the letter I recently had published in the Hull Daily Mail.

 

"My Audi A8 came to an abrupt halt in the middle of roadworks during rush hour. All electrics shut down. I was unable to use my hazard warning lights. I was unable to lower my window to shout to a workman nearby. I was unable to exit the vehicle. Literally everything failed. In the event of fire I would have been burned alive which may have delighted some of those hurling abuse. It was almost impossible to recover the vehicle as the wheels were turned towards the kerb and the power steering and steering lock had seized. I eventually had to remain in the vehicle until it was finally dragged diagonally onto the back of a trailer and taken away. The replacement 48v alternator part is unavailable and on back order in Germany due to the sheer scale of vehicle failures that now require it. Apparently looking at online forums it's a case of when rather than if it fails. I could never feel safe in my vehicle again. Watching all those approaching HGVs in my rear view mirror was truly awful. I understand recalls have been issued elsewhere in the world and it's scandalous that this hasn't happened here. Why was my life endangered because Audi technology is not up to the job."

 

Following publication I reported the matter to the Motor Ombudsman and the DVSA. The ombudsman said it fell outside their remit but the DVSA have given Audi UK 28 days to provide a written report explaining how such catastrophic failure was possible. Audi Executive Office only gave me a goodwill gesture of £600 (reduced to £500 due to VAT!) despite the £2,800 total repair cost and the serious risk to my life. To rub salt into the wound I even went out and bought a cheap runaround as I needed my own transport for hospital appointments and my car was miraculously repaired before I even picked it up. I now have two cars. The 28-day deadline is only three days away!

It feels like there maybe a little more momentum developing as we collect more folks who had the same experience.  Stratford Upon Avon Audi have had at least 2 failures (both mine!) and they are well aware of the extended warranty on the part, but Audi UK will not disclose anything, or at least they have not up until now.  I am still pushing - I have changed cars as a result, but have remained with Audi - better the devil maybe, but aside from this issue it is a great car, but I really want some honesty from them, but I feel that a combined action and I hope some input from DVSA may see some progress to addressing this.  Well done for escalating it outside of Audi.  I wonder why the Ombudsman feels it isnt in their remit - sure safety should be in everyones remit?  Did they say why not ?  

[Mark2]

There are 143 posts in this site on this topic. More than any other topic.

How do we get anyone with any influence to take notice?

[Audi Death Trap]

This is the response from the Motor Ombudsman.

 

Thank you for submitting your enquiry to The Motor Ombudsman.
 

Having looked through your complaint, it looks like you have complained to the manufacturer of your vehicle but the vehicle is no longer within its manufacturer's warranty period.

 

Under the New Car Code, accredited manufacturers must ensure that they keep to the terms of the warranty provided with the vehicle - however, as soon as the warranty period is over, the manufacturer has no obligation towards your vehicle and doesn't have to pay towards repairs, even if you think the problem is a manufacturing defect or you experienced the same issue during the warranty period. As such, this isn't something we can consider further for you as the manufacturer doesn't have to contribute and the New Car Code does not apply.

 

You can ask the manufacturer to consider making a contribution as a gesture of goodwill - any contribution they make is at their discretion. This will depend on a number of factors including the age and mileage of the vehicle, where the vehicle was purchased and whether it has been serviced within the network. It's unlikely a manufacturer will contribute if you have had the car repaired at an independent garage and are looking to claim the cost back.

 

If your vehicle was sold to you within the last six years, you could approach the seller of the vehicle to see if they would be willing to help. Please bear in mind that, if it has been more than six months since you bought the car, you will need to be able to prove that the fault was present when the car was sold to you.

 

If the seller is accredited to our Vehicle Sales Code, and you are unhappy with their response, please get in touch and we will see what we can do to assist you further. You can check to see if they are accredited at www.themotorombudsman.org/garage-finder.

 

If they are not accredited, you may wish to contact the Citizens Advice Bureau on 0808 223 1133 for some guidance on your legal rights as we will not be able to assist you further.

[Audi Death Trap]

I intend to push for Total Recall. I have already made initial enquiries with AA Motor Legal Services and intend pursuing a claim for endangerment of life once Audi admit there is an inherent design fault and they are forced to bring in every affected vehicle.

[Audi Death Trap]

Audi Executive Office pointed the finger of blame at Hull Audi for not identifying the extended warranty on the part and said I should not have been asked to pay. When the dealership looked into this further the warranty had been put in place the day before, weeks after my car had the work done! 

They will not address the issue of risk to life or the duff advice I was given that led to me buying a second car.

[MikeyW]

20 minutes ago, Audi Death Trap said:

Audi Executive Office pointed the finger of blame at Hull Audi for not identifying the extended warranty on the part and said I should not have been asked to pay. When the dealership looked into this further the warranty had been put in place the day before, weeks after my car had the work done! 

They will not address the issue of risk to life or the duff advice I was given that led to me buying a second car.

given there is now an extended warranty on the part might this open the door back with the Ombudsman ?  How long out of the cars original warranty were you ? This issue has existed for ages, so I would be pushing the dealership to give you your cash back and claim the repair/replacement from Audi UK.  For them to deny you the warranty on a known issue like this is unfair in the extreme.  My first failure was 2 years ago for this part so this is not a new issue, and audi know it.

[Audi Death Trap]

The three year Audi warranty would have run out early 2022. The replacement part is guaranteed for two years until June 2026. The extended warranty would supposedly run for seven years from first registration which would actually end before that date rendering it useless. I did go back to the Ombudsman once I was told about the extended warranty but it remains out of their remit on a technicality. Because the warranty applies to a specific part only and not the entire vehicle there's nothing they can do for me. How convenient!