Alternator failure related to mild hybrid system?

[Mark2]

mikeyw you are right but low battery occurs once you have used up its capacity . So if you are driving with the heated seats on, the aircon, etc out is not long after re charging fails that you get low bat. If you had a no charge red light then you would turn off anything yiu did not need and limp off the motorway or to somewhere safe,

[Audi Death Trap]

The day before I ground to a halt in a live lane of traffic I actually visited my local Audi dealership to alert them to the fact that my start/stop system had deactivated itself. I booked myself in for diagnostics a few days later but I was overtaken by events. I subsequently found out this is typically the first indication of imminent alternator failure. Nobody knew to warn me. I asked Audi Executive Office why anyone reporting that issue wasn't cautioned about driving their vehicle any further and I was told anything could cause the start/stop to fail and there was no need for a warning. 

[cliffcoggin]

4 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi I don't personally think the mention of the car being a luxury brand is an irrelevance, after all thats what you have paid for,

If, and I stress if, this whole problem is a safety issue, (I am not knowledgeable enough to judge if that is so,) then to emphasise the luxury aspect of the brand is to imply that cheap brands are not not worthy of such safety considerations. I doubt that is anybody's intention, hence my suggestion to ignore that aspect of the argument.

[Stevey Y]

50 minutes ago, cliffcoggin said:

If, and I stress if, this whole problem is a safety issue, (I am not knowledgeable enough to judge if that is so,) then to emphasise the luxury aspect of the brand is to imply that cheap brands are not not worthy of such safety considerations. I doubt that is anybody's intention, hence my suggestion to ignore that aspect of the argument.

Hi Cliff thats the whole point, the cheaper brands suffer none of that problem ergo one would be inclined to believe that Audi self proclaimed standard as a luxury manufacturer is a fairy tale insomuch as if you are paying that much money for a car that performs those sort of malfunctions, possibly terminal for the owner, why pay their prices when you can buy something without that kind of problem and at least have the facilities to warn you of impending failure, when the car just stops on a motorway with no steering or anything else I would cite that as a serious problem which they seem to ignore and hope it disappears, should this be the attitude of what was class A manufacturer, I think they have lost their way and probably a lot of customers when the potential buyers read about this problem.

Steve.

[Steph1234]

8 hours ago, Audi Death Trap said:

DVSA says

"Thank you for your email. 

Their response appears to be at the end of an email discussion, and it is their prerogative as to whether they wish to continue communicating with Customers. 

Irrespective of their Customer Relations stance,  DVSA will continue to communicate with their technical section (as they will with us). 

Thank you"

Do you have a case number or a way in which other Audi owners can add information to your case with the DVSA? I’m just wondering if it would add more weight to your case rather than us all having individual cases? Audi closed my case too as it was a manufacturing issue which Bristol not audi uk deal with! It’s unbelievable really. 

[Audi Death Trap]

I don't think you can add to my case at the moment as it is technically still in the "Customer Review Stage."

However I would strongly recommend filling in the form on the DVSA website and adding more weight that way but there would need to be a distinct safety element rather than just premature failure.

https://contact-dvsa.service.gov.uk/report-vehicle-safety-defect/

There are multiple forums discussing this topic. Maybe other complainants could be encouraged onto here so there are more in one place.

My next car won't be a 48v mild hybrid. I'm going back to pure petrol. I've already destroyed the environment by causing a 5-mile tailback of heavy goods vehicles and docks traffic.

Strangely it won't be an Audi either.

Edited July 9 by Audi Death Trap

[88-RS6]

Hi there,

Another victim of the Audi Mild Hybrid death trap. I have a 2021 Audi RS6 3 months outside manufactuer warranty. The usual process happened: Dash black out, gear dis-engage, engine off, no power steering then coasted into a safe place to park the car up (Luckly). Recovered the car to the nearest Audi dealership and they have tested the car and confirmed the alternator is packed up. 

From reading here/ other forums I told them about the Audi 7 year drivetrain warranty, but they came back saying the RS6 is not covered under that and only the "diesel" cars are covered not petrol. Very strange. My local Audi dealer is fighting my corner with Audi UK currently.

If anyone with an RS6 outside its manufacture  warranty in the UK and successfully had a failed alternator replaced under the "Extended 7 Year drivetrain warranty" please share more info.

 

[RSW]

Hello

I am hoping Which’s Car Editorial team are looking into this now. 

I  don’t know if it will lead to anything but if they do take it further and ask for examples can I assume that some of you are happy to consider providing further details (for example Steph1234, Mark2, Audi Death Trap, CSMT, Worried of Yorkshire, SteveHBerkshire, 88RS6 etc?).

If Which start asking Audi UK well informed questions on this issue, the way in which it can unfold and the danger it can represent it  may add some additional pressure to Audi to do something more proactive and safety orientated (like a proper warning with clear guidance when 12v charging stops). 

Worth a push. 
 

As an aside 88-RS6, as far as I’m aware the 7yr warranty on the MHEV alternator component on your RS6  should be covered - would keep pushing (Mark2 and others here have managed to with effort, on their RS6s) 

[Audi Death Trap]

Sorry to hear you've also had problems. At least you managed to get out of traffic and out of your car which is more than I did! My car was more than two years beyond its three-year warranty. I managed to get a £500 goodwill gesture from Audi UK after kicking up a fuss. I suspect you will have to complain yourself as I don't honestly believe your local dealership will be able to make any inroads. It's usually the case of Audi UK pushing dealerships to cover costs rather than the other way round even if the problem isn't of the dealership's making. I've now got some kind of unspecified warranty on the replacement alternator. Audi UK were going to make me an improved offer but have now not done so as I continue to be a thorn in their side. Make a complaint but don't expect it to be easy and they will deny there is even a global problem. I was told the replacement part would take months to arrive which resulted in me buying another car. Then it was fixed the same day!

[Audi Death Trap]

Hi RSW, I managed to get a letter published in my local paper describing what had happened to me as a warning shot to Audi. I intend contacting the national press in due course but I'm currently hanging on for the DVSA to update me. I would have no qualms whatsoever in cooperating with Which or any other media outlet. Luckily I wasn't hit but someone else could quite easily die. It still remains unclear whether the replacement parts being fitted are in any way better than the originals. I've deactivated the start/stop system every journey since I've owned the car which possibly prolonged the alternator's life but I don't know what the previous owner did. My car may already have had the alternator replaced in the first four years.

[RSW]

Thanks Audi Death Trap, if they ask will list yours as an example to follow up.  I read your posts, sounded a dreadful experience. I think you did the right thing getting it published to raise awareness and send Audi a message.

Seems like Audi are allowing unsuspecting customers to play Russian roulette with their safety with respect to this component failure, while they play down its significance and even in face of sensible requests to develop a warning (like Mark2 raised) point to EVs as focus not older designs etc. 

Everything I have read about the failure (some imply coolant leak, some component chip being overheated - potentially linked to former) and replacement, including the technical reviews suggests (can’t be sure) it’s a like for like replacement even if the part number varies by generational reference. 

Seems plausible they haven’t got a true root cause or at least if they have they don’t have a component level fix (or do but don’t want to develop test and deploy with the sub component supplier) and are just hoping to cover it via like for like swap under the extended warranty, letting customers shoulder the dreadful experience, subsequent hassle and leg work. 

I suspect in the end they will have to do something, but sadly it won’t be because it was the right thing to do, it will be because they received enough pressure and at some point decide to protect brand/sales/ manage litigation costs etc. Just hoping it isn’t because someone gets seriously hurt. 
 

Good luck with DVSA 

[88-RS6]

@RSW Absolutely thats a great idea. This issue is highly severe. Worst is if your unlucky and the car shuts down on a high flow traffic with nowhere safe to come to a stop then the outcome is very different. Apparently the RS6 do not have the 7 year unlimited mileage drivetrain Warranty. My dealer is aware of such policy issused by Audi UK but only for other models mostly "Diesel" models NOT Petrol. My dealer mentioned hes got 5 cars in currently all waiting for alternators mostly diesel cars. They are fighting my corner as we speak. I've  lodged a complaint to Audi UK  yesterday and so far they have been pretty puntual and called back today confirming they will be escalating this. Not sure what this means but lets see.

Email from my dealer to Audi UK
The 7 year Audi warranty extension refers to TPI number 2069784/8. This TPI isn’t applicable to the chassis number of (customer) vehicle. The TPI states the extension is applicable to TDI 48V MHEV. The customer was in procession of a bulletin but I’m unsure the detail of this as he hadn’t left this with us. I’ve asked my Service Advisor to reach out to obtain this.

 

We’ve applied for factory goodwill on request number 114307461 that returned a 0% contribution.

As the customer hasn’t an Audi extended warranty in place the cost at this stage would sit with the customer unless Audi UK are willing to contribute towards the repair. This is a new customer to (Town) Audi so I wouldn’t be in the position to contribute towards the repair.

I’m in agreement with the customer though to some degree, these starter generator issues are widely known and are multiple cases on such failure, I have 5 onsite at this current time. I’d question why both the customer and (Town) Audi should be expected to pay towards such a common placed issue. Happy to proceed under warranty should the decision to cover with a 100% contribution.
-----------------
 
I've had a chat with the service manager today. I told him I'm in no hurry for the car back but I like the dealer to work with me  to get this claim through Audi UK out of principle. He advised there is different level in an event like this, where the dealer feels its also wrong for the dealer or customer to pay for such defect. So first stage is Audi UK customer service, second is then escalate the case and lastly direct contact with UK Audi CEO: Andrew Doyle. I've told the service manager to take every step if needed as I'm not the only person in UK with this issue and that Audi UK needs to take responsibility like Audi US.

I've attached a copy of what my dealer can find from a Q7 Diesel relating to the 7 Year Drivetrain Warranty. But there isnt a specific one for the RS6? If anyone have a TPI number specific to the RS6 that be awesome!

Thank you

@Audi Death TrapAppreciate the feedback.

[88-RS6]

@Audi Death Trap Appreciate the link to DVSA. I've lodged a case on there also.


Dealer quoted £2500 for parts/ labour to fix it, but we will be battle with Audi UK for 100% contribution for matter.

[Audi Death Trap]

My replacement alternator came with the standard two-year guarantee regardless of the vague warranty supposedly in place. Failure after June 2026 is likely to cost in excess of £2000 again. This time I incurred additional costs of £800 due to recovery damage and £3700 due to duff advice resulting in me buying the cheapest car I could find within walking distance of home as I could not manage without transport. Needless to say the dealership were unable to provide a car. After only one year of ownership the depreciation makes replacing the car an unattractive proposition. Dying is slightly less attractive but I suspect I will keep the car until June 2026 and hope for the best. After that I cannot risk the inevitable costs.

[Audi Death Trap]

Hi Dan, Audi Hull declined making a contribution and there was no suggestion that they would press Audi UK on my behalf for a full settlement. If you have the full cost covered without my life-threatening experience I would love to know as Audi Executive Office have already shown total lack of consistency in the way these failures are being managed. Customers are being treated like absolute !Removed!.

[Cally]

Hi Dan, I am very sorry to hear that you too have had this dreadful experience. In response tou your question, I can advise after a 1 month battle I finally got Audi to cover the cost of replacing the starter generator and I also got them to provide a hire car while mine remained off the road. My car was teturned with a fault on the driver display  and has not run properly since with multiple software and gearbox issues mysteriouslyappearingand disappearing. I have requested a rejection/buy back under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, however, so far the dealership are ignoring me and Audi Executive are saying they will compensate for my inconvenience only. I have not accepted any payments as I have lost faith in my car and the brand and now want rid. There is no way I could sell my car privately as I know the truth.

[Cally]

My apologies I don't think Dan was asking the question!

[Mark2]

Hi 88Rs6 

My RS6 was 3 months out of warranty and had this problem but perseverance with Audi UK and my dealer got it replaced for free plus cost of recovery plus hire car. I now have a spare Alternator in my garage ready to use if it happens again.

[Steph1234]

On 7/11/2024 at 2:09 PM, 88-RS6 said:

Hi there,

Another victim of the Audi Mild Hybrid death trap. I have a 2021 Audi RS6 3 months outside manufactuer warranty. The usual process happened: Dash black out, gear dis-engage, engine off, no power steering then coasted into a safe place to park the car up (Luckly). Recovered the car to the nearest Audi dealership and they have tested the car and confirmed the alternator is packed up. 

From reading here/ other forums I told them about the Audi 7 year drivetrain warranty, but they came back saying the RS6 is not covered under that and only the "diesel" cars are covered not petrol. Very strange. My local Audi dealer is fighting my corner with Audi UK currently.

If anyone with an RS6 outside its manufacture  warranty in the UK and successfully had a failed alternator replaced under the "Extended 7 Year drivetrain warranty" please share more info.

 

I don’t know if this is helpful to you but as to know the part number of your alternator. I was told by Audi the affected alternator part number which are covered under the 7yr warranty is..4N0 903 028. Don’t let them fob you off like Bristol did telling me they couldn’t give me that information. I politely told them under the freedom of information act they certainly could and they then gave it to you. 

[Steph1234]

On 7/11/2024 at 2:22 PM, RSW said:

Hello

I am hoping Which’s Car Editorial team are looking into this now. 

I  don’t know if it will lead to anything but if they do take it further and ask for examples can I assume that some of you are happy to consider providing further details (for example Steph1234, Mark2, Audi Death Trap, CSMT, Worried of Yorkshire, SteveHBerkshire, 88RS6 etc?).

If Which start asking Audi UK well informed questions on this issue, the way in which it can unfold and the danger it can represent it  may add some additional pressure to Audi to do something more proactive and safety orientated (like a proper warning with clear guidance when 12v charging stops). 

Worth a push. 
 

As an aside 88-RS6, as far as I’m aware the 7yr warranty on the MHEV alternator component on your RS6  should be covered - would keep pushing (Mark2 and others here have managed to with effort, on their RS6s) 

Yes I am more than happy to support 

[Mark2]

I picked up my spare alternator from Bath Audi yesterday and it’s part number is 4N1-903-028-B interesting thst it is one digit different. Makes me wonder if this has been upgraded ?

[88-RS6]

Thanks @Mark2 For your reply. That come in good use. Can I ask which dealer finally wont the battle with Audi UK for you? I see your location is up the road from me. Was there any specific details of the process that helped with getting the claim Authorized with Audi UK? My car is  in the same situation. Its 3 Months out of its original 3 year M/W.

[88-RS6]

Hi @Steph1234 thats good information. I was told originally by Audi Cheltenham that my alternator part number was not covered, which I asked why, and that doesnt make any sense. Next day they simply told me there is not a 7 year drivetrain warranty on the Audi A6 and only on the Q7 (Attached above).

So the cars with the Audi 7 Year Drivetrain warranty covers alternator with part numbers 4N0 903 028 - Is this confirmed?

Lastly from @Mark2 the newest version of the alternator have part number: 4N1-903-028-B

Looks like a newer version of the superceeded part number 4N0 903 028.

[MikeyW]

6 minutes ago, 88-RS6 said:

Thanks @Mark2 For your reply. That come in good use. Can I ask which dealer finally wont the battle with Audi UK for you? I see your location is up the road from me. Was there any specific details of the process that helped with getting the claim Authorized with Audi UK? My car is  in the same situation. Its 3 Months out of its original 3 year M/W.

Dont let them fob you off - my RS6 was a similar age to yours - or slightly older and the part was replaced under the 7 year cover.  I did have an audi extended warranty on it too but this was not used for this work. I'm not aware that the dealer had any battle as such - the works were approved through the system - I think this is something thats approved via the factory and isnt anything to do with Audi UK....but I maybe mistaken.

[88-RS6]

Hello Mikey, Thanks for your message. Is that with Oxford dealer? Did the dealer handle the claim fully or did you open up a complaint with Audi UK.