Alternator failure related to mild hybrid system?

[Mark2]

1 hour ago, DADSQ7 said:

Good afternoon fellow frustrated Audi owners! 

soooo, had battery replaced. Paid £2,820, and drove away yesterday. 

Audi UK didn’t come through in time for any recompense, as they keep trying to get Leicester to take the hit. On this point I squarely blame Audi UK. Why would the franchisee take the hit??? Not that the dealership has come away with any credit from this sorry state of affairs. 

Anyway, less than 24 hours on, IT’S BACK AT LEICESTER. What a !Removed! surprise! My dad had a very firm conversation with them yesterday, before we drove away, to ask why the hell Leicester would let him drive away in a car with a known fault, and asked if they at all cared about the safety of him and my mum, or is this just money led. It’s quite apparent it all money driven, with no regard to safety.

Right on cue, this morning the battery light comes on. He drives it straight there before the inevitable occurs. 

So, £2,820 down and no car for 4 weeks, no courtesy car, and still Leicester and Audi UK put money ahead of safety. Leicester have now said they’ll get an alternator!!! Good luck finding one. It’s all a cover up, and a money loss mitigation decision by lawyers in the UK. USA has responded appropriately, and I guess that decision sucks all the alternators from the world stocks. 

I am told the battery shuts down if the message from the alternator goes awry. So the new battery should be ok. Great! 👍 

So, in summary, I told them what was wrong 4 weeks ago as the AA diagnosed it. I tried to tell them there was this warranty extension. It took 3 weeks before they decided to check, as I sent them the internal notice kindly posted in this thread. Then it’s been nothing but waffle. I can only conclude that Audi UK must be in some sort of financial difficulty to not just sort this. They then diagnose the battery after doing a swap out from another car, charge us for the pleasure, and declare it mended as for five minutes the car worked ok. I told them the battery was clearly dead due to the alternator (which is known to be faulty), but oh no, they “have” to follow what Audi UK tell them. Logic doesn’t seem to be in abundance anymore!!  

I really would like to join the communications to the various places you have all reported this to. 

Is there any traction with media? BBC, etc. if there’s any current reference or contacts, let me know. 

As for DVSA etc. happy to chip in, but like any government agency, they don’t have the teeth, funds nor inclination to stand up to a global company like Audi. No different to water regulators… 

The only way is media coverage, reviews, reputation and walking away from the brand ultimately. 

Share price is the only real measure of success for these companies. Headlines tend to focus the minds of execs and investors alike.

TBC…. 

 

[Mark2]

If you seriously cannot get an alternator I can let yiu have my spare which is sitting on my garage shelf on the basis you replace it when there is one available. Let me know 

[DADSQ7]

13 minutes ago, Mark2 said:

If you seriously cannot get an alternator I can let yiu have my spare which is sitting on my garage shelf on the basis you replace it when there is one available. Let me know 

Hey, that’s so kind of you to offer. Shouldn’t come to that as we’re awaiting a courtesy vehicle, and they’re not getting it back until they have sorted. 
 

if we get nowhere, I’ll come back to you. Thanks again 

[DADSQ7]

Ok, as was predictable, Audi Technical have instructed Leicester to guess further and have asked us to pay £1,700 to replace the voltage converter… to see if that fixes this !Removed! show. 

We ALL know the faults originate from the alternator but until the computer says so, it’s let’s guess at your expense time. 

I suspect we’ve replaced the battery for no good reason, and now the voltage converter. When we’ve paid for everything downstream of the alternator, and it still doesn’t work, they’ll replace the alternator. By then we’ll have paid best part of £5k. Wouldn’t want to bet my house on ever seeing that again. 

[budgie55]

Ah well, 2018 (68 uk plate) Q7 here 29,000 miles just had yellow warning yesterday electronics failure take to workshop. Booked in to Bolton Audi but 1 week this coming Friday; took my chances and drove to work today, car failed with red lights, power steering etc going as I pulled on the drive at home thankfully. Car now won’t start so charging 12v battery. 

Hooked up to VAGCOM and have the alternator issue so pretty sure it is the same issue, no idea if it will be covered by any recall given UK not recalled yet. But thankfully have Audi extended warranty, only issue now is how to get the car to the dealers?! One for the morning…. Pretty disappointed in this car since I had it from nearly new and will likely be my last Audi after owning several now. 

[DADSQ7]

1 hour ago, budgie55 said:

Ah well, 2018 (68 uk plate) Q7 here 29,000 miles just had yellow warning yesterday electronics failure take to workshop. Booked in to Bolton Audi but 1 week this coming Friday; took my chances and drove to work today, car failed with red lights, power steering etc going as I pulled on the drive at home thankfully. Car now won’t start so charging 12v battery. 

Hooked up to VAGCOM and have the alternator issue so pretty sure it is the same issue, no idea if it will be covered by any recall given UK not recalled yet. But thankfully have Audi extended warranty, only issue now is how to get the car to the dealers?! One for the morning…. Pretty disappointed in this car since I had it from nearly new and will likely be my last Audi after owning several now. 

If you charge the 12v battery, it “should” get you a fair way. We did 12 miles in that state. However, I’ve heard that potentially charging to too high a voltage could damage the voltage converter, so be careful.

Best of luck. Keep us posted. 
 

 

[budgie55]

5 minutes ago, DADSQ7 said:

If you charge the 12v battery, it “should” get you a fair way. We did 12 miles in that state. However, I’ve heard that potentially charging to too high a voltage could damage the voltage converter, so be careful.

Best of luck. Keep us posted. 
 

 

Cheers DADSQ7, 12 miles will get me to the garage which is around 9 miles or so away which solves one problem. When I checked the lithium battery yesterday it was around 50%, that may have moved today. Don’t want to run down the lithium as they’re damn expensive to replace so I hear.

 

Am I right that once the 12v is charged, the car will / may also charge the LIPO up further or is that just an urban myth? Presume there would need to be some sort of DC/DC converter involved (which I believe the cars have)?

Edited August 20 by budgie55

[DADSQ7]

1 hour ago, budgie55 said:

Cheers DADSQ7, 12 miles will get me to the garage which is around 9 miles or so away which solves one problem. When I checked the lithium battery yesterday it was around 50%, that may have moved today. Don’t want to run down the lithium as they’re damn expensive to replace so I hear.

 

Am I right that once the 12v is charged, the car will / may also charge the LIPO up further or is that just an urban myth? Presume there would need to be some sort of DC/DC converter involved (which I believe the cars have)?

I really don’t know about that, but yes the battery is £1,920 before fitting, as we’ve found out. The voltage converter is £1,000 plus fitting, and the alternator is over £2k. Hope your warranty covers everything as I was told the 48v battery was classed as a wear and tear item… 

[budgie55]

14 minutes ago, DADSQ7 said:

I really don’t know about that, but yes the battery is £1,920 before fitting, as we’ve found out. The voltage converter is £1,000 plus fitting, and the alternator is over £2k. Hope your warranty covers everything as I was told the 48v battery was classed as a wear and tear item… 

Thanks for that, wasn’t aware the voltage converter also needed swapping out ….. eek. Makes the £500 worth of warranty extension with Audi hopefully feel warranted (no pinup intended). Lots of expense for the sake of meeting emissions standards for the end user isn’t it 😞

So sorry to hear of your experience and expense too, hope you get sorted and can fall in love with the car again once it is fixed.

Edited August 20 by budgie55

[NikHussain]

Hi all,

I've hit the same issue with my 2019 A6 55TFSI.  The first message that appeared was 'Electrical system: fault. Please contact workshop' then the yellow battery icon remained on until about 10 mins later it chucked out a whole load of system failure messages before clonking out at a busy cross junction on a Saturday afternoon, stuck in Park so i couldn't push it off the road, no power to windows so i had to leave them open, eventually the key fob couldn't lock or unlock the doors.   BMW drivers were laughing at me 😞

I'm out of warranty although the car only has done 45k miles, full Audi Slough Service History, i'm going to ring them now and have it out with them but i really hope they're going to help me out.

If anyone's interested, i'll post how i get on here.

Cheers, Nik

 

[budgie55]

Just now, NikHussain said:

Hi all,

I've hit the same issue with my 2019 A6 55TFSI.  The first message that appeared was 'Electrical system: fault. Please contact workshop' then the yellow battery icon remained on until about 10 mins later it chucked out a whole load of system failure messages before clonking out at a busy cross junction on a Saturday afternoon, stuck in Park so i couldn't push it off the road, no power to windows so i had to leave them open, eventually the key fob couldn't lock or unlock the doors.   BMW drivers were laughing at me 😞

I'm out of warranty although the car only has done 45k miles, full Audi Slough Service History, i'm going to ring them now and have it out with them but i really hope they're going to help me out.

If anyone's interested, i'll post how i get on here.

Cheers, Nik

 

Sorry to hear your troubles Nik, keep us updated as I’m interested for sure. Mine only due to go in to Audi Bolton this Friday (waiting for a slot) so currently sat on drive. Will give the 12v a charge night before Friday, and hope I can get to the garage without breaking down. Hope you get yours sorted.

[Audi Death Trap]

Hi Nik, make sure the dealership know you are aware of the seven year extended warranty on the generator starter / alternator. As it's a manufacturing defect you should be provided with a courtesy car or paid-for hire car.

[DADSQ7]

If they’re anything like Leicester Audi, they’ll start with “guided fault finding”, make you pay for the pleasure of them trying parts from other cars on site. (I’d hate to be buying the cars on site).

then when you’ve paid the best part of £5k, they’ll realise it can only be the alternator even though the specific fault code hasn’t been thrown up. Then, after 2 months they’ll try to find one, and you’ll have a battle to try to get the £5k back, as Audi UK say it’s all a coincidence. All the time you’ll not get a Courtesy car, and the dealer blames Audi UK, and AUDI UK blame the dealer, with both of them blaming Audi Technical department (to whom you cannot communicate with). Wan kers all of them. 
 

Anyway, good luck. Keep us posted. 

[Mark2]

I hhave had a response from the DVSA and have gone back to them with a reply below. The more users who can contact them wit their experences they may get off their back sides. email john.corcoran@dvsa.gov.uk

Dear Mr Corcoran,

Thank you for your email dated 14 August. If I am to summarise the DVSA only  considers  safety defects if they comply or not with the ‘the Code’. In your opinion these vehicles have a two stage warning system which is both visual and acoustic  which meets type approval under the code.

 

Having experience this failure first hand I should like to explore this two stage warning system in more detail.

 

STAGE ONE

1] What are the visual and audible warnings triggered when the alternator fails to charge?

2] How is the driver informed that the failure is that the  alternator is no longer charging the battery?

3] How does this stage warn the driver that continued vehicle use will lead to ‘roll out’ and that he should park the vehicle safely as soon as possible ?

4] How long does Stage One last before Stage Two kicks in?

5] What does ‘the Code’ state is the reasonable warnings and time given to the driver to take action?

 

STAGE TWO

1] What are the visual and acoustic warnings triggered at stage two?

2] How is the driver informed that he is now in Stage Two and this is becoming more critical?

3] How does stage two warn the driver to stop as soon as possible and what is the average time frame between stage two activation and vehicle failure- ‘roll out’ ?

4] What is the Code spec for stage two?

 

Some of the points in your email are incorrect judging from my experience and that of others:

You state that 12v battery depletion should support secondary systems such as lighting and steering but in my experience, Stage Two this support depletes in a matter of seconds and the following items become inoperable:

• Gearbox
• Handbrake, therefore on a slope the driver cannot exit the vehicle
• Rear doors being opened from inside if child locks have been engaged or outside as locking automatically engages above 10mph
• Front doors from outside
• Tail gate so there is no access to warning triangle

 

You also state that initially the 12v battery should support secondary systems for a period of time allowing the driver to bring the car to a safe stop. In hindsight you are right but at the time the driver does not know what the problem is and what he should do about it beyond contacting his dealer, as advised by the handbook.

 

This frankly is the nub of the matter, but I await your responses to my questions above as I may have missed some warning signs.

 

[NikHussain]

44 minutes ago, Audi Death Trap said:

Hi Nik, make sure the dealership know you are aware of the seven year extended warranty on the generator starter / alternator. As it's a manufacturing defect you should be provided with a courtesy car or paid-for hire car.

 

25 minutes ago, DADSQ7 said:

If they’re anything like Leicester Audi, they’ll start with “guided fault finding”, make you pay for the pleasure of them trying parts from other cars on site. (I’d hate to be buying the cars on site).

then when you’ve paid the best part of £5k, they’ll realise it can only be the alternator even though the specific fault code hasn’t been thrown up. Then, after 2 months they’ll try to find one, and you’ll have a battle to try to get the £5k back, as Audi UK say it’s all a coincidence. All the time you’ll not get a Courtesy car, and the dealer blames Audi UK, and AUDI UK blame the dealer, with both of them blaming Audi Technical department (to whom you cannot communicate with). Wan kers all of them. 
 

Anyway, good luck. Keep us posted. 

 

47 minutes ago, Audi Death Trap said:

Hi Nik, make sure the dealership know you are aware of the seven year extended warranty on the generator starter / alternator. As it's a manufacturing defect you should be provided with a courtesy car or paid-for hire car.

 

55 minutes ago, budgie55 said:

Sorry to hear your troubles Nik, keep us updated as I’m interested for sure. Mine only due to go in to Audi Bolton this Friday (waiting for a slot) so currently sat on drive. Will give the 12v a charge night before Friday, and hope I can get to the garage without breaking down. Hope you get yours sorted.

thanks for the advice and recommendation all and @DADSQ7 just as you said, unfortunatley Audi Slough won't entertain the notion of a 7 year warranty on the 48v Alternator nor a courtesy car, they advise that there's no recall and what i have mentioned to them about this being a well known issue  "sounds like a coincidence".  They're only willing to diagnose the issue at a cost to me and then advise further.   I tried Audi UK aswell, same rhetoric, unless there's a re-call, don't expect anything.   The only thing i managed to do is to get Audi Roadside Assist to collect the car from Luton and take it to Audi Slough, at first they were trying to get me to arrange it and foot the bill myself.  

@Audi Death Trap is there any email trails of official documentation about the Seven year extended warranty becuase it sounds like neither the local dealerships of head office have any recollection of that? 

Cheers 

[Mark2]

See DANs post 2 august above 

[DADSQ7]

@NikHussain Leicester were not aware of the document posted on here back in 2 Aug. This is Sytner Group as is Slough it seems. It says make sure staff are aware. Listers seem to make their staff aware as every one we called knew straight away. 
When I provided Leicester with the document, they realised what system it was one, evidently one they weren’t reading. They have since acknowledged the point, but insist it’s not the alternator. 
I would say though that this appears to be only Q7 related, but I suppose if your part number is the same then maybe it applies… but don’t hold your breath. 

Who at Audi UK have you been speaking to? 
 

 

[Mark2]

I have confirmed this document with Audi Bath and it is genuine from Audi UK to all dealers as Audi UK are picking up the bill. I have purchased a spare alternator which is sitting in my garage waiting the next failure. Part number A4N1 903 028 B should be the same for all mild hybrid VW/ Audi cars

[Audi Death Trap]

Hi Nik, it's in the POSTED IMAGES towards the top of the right hand column >>>

[NikHussain]

1 hour ago, DADSQ7 said:

@NikHussain Leicester were not aware of the document posted on here back in 2 Aug. This is Sytner Group as is Slough it seems. It says make sure staff are aware. Listers seem to make their staff aware as every one we called knew straight away. 
When I provided Leicester with the document, they realised what system it was one, evidently one they weren’t reading. They have since acknowledged the point, but insist it’s not the alternator. 
I would say though that this appears to be only Q7 related, but I suppose if your part number is the same then maybe it applies… but don’t hold your breath. 

Who at Audi UK have you been speaking to? 
 

 

Sorry, abit of a newby at this so i didn't make not of 'her' name.

[NikHussain]

Hi all, just a little update, when i broke down, i was in a queue of traffic waiting for my turn at a busy cross junction, my car was such a nuicanse to other motorists that HGV's trying to go around me ended up head to head with HGV's coming in the opposite direction so i was out of the car trying to help traffic flow whilst waiting on the AA.  A Mechanic from a nearby garage was cought up in that traffic jam so he told me he'd be back with a Booster Pak to get me out of harms way.  He returned 10 mins later and go me up and running enough to drive the car around the corner to his workshop with the bonnet in the air.  He already knew it was the alternator but hooked up his Diagnostic tool anyway and confirmed it.  Funny thing is, he previously owned a 2018 A7 with the same 55TFSI engine as my A6 and he also had to swap out his Alternator in that so he was familiar with the issue at hand.  When the AA turned up, it was a diagnostics van rather than a recovery truck so the AA chap they took a quick look and affirmed that it's most likely the Alternator.   

As i knew that i didn't have any warranty left on the car and that it was going to be ny impossible to get Audi to fix it, i kind of made the premature decision to leave my car with that indenpendant garge and allow them to get me a new alternator and replace it, they quoted me 1250 inc VAT for the Alternator and 350 labour.  He said he wasn't making anything on the Alternator so he's done me a favour there, he was going to source and original Alternator from TPS or something like that?

After signing up to this forum today and getting advice from your goodselves i realised that i might just be able to get Audi to foot the bill so i rushed down to the garage to get them to hold off but they had already got to work on the car, i think they removed the front bumper to get to the alternator and they advised that they'll have the new alternator by tomorrow so i didn't think it was right to stop them at that point and i've let them crack on with it, at least i'll have the car back by Wednesday if the part arrives tomorrow.

sorry for wasting everyone's time, i did however email the DVSA contact that was shared by @Mark2 just so they can add it the list of complaints they're compliling.

 

Cheers all

Nik

[cliffcoggin]

3 hours ago, NikHussain said:

sorry for wasting everyone's time, i did however email the DVSA contact that was shared by @Mark2 just so they can add it the list of complaints they're compliling.

You have not wasted anybody's time Nik. Your information adds to the body of evidence that is accumulating about the problem. With luck and a tail wind you may even get some compensation from Audi if it ever admits to liability.

Or hell may freeze over first.

[JASENRS6]

Hi Everyone

 

 

My wife bought a new AUDI RS6 on the 9^th may 2023 from audi blackburn in lancashire for the Sum of £119,000 it was a cash Purchase 

 

The car was remapped ie engine upgrade on the 1/7/23 by a company called DMS Automotive, this was just purely for better mpg, 

the car had a towbar fitted on the 5/3/24 by buchans of Glasgow

 

The car created a major fault on the 10/3/24 with 1550 miles on the clock, and coming up with 21 faults on the AA Mechanics screen, of a electrical system failure, ie the 48v starter generator yellow light then 15 mins later red light into cut out in a busy road junction 

 

The car was recovered to Stirling audi to get fixed because there booking system was showing the earliest appointments available, the car was there for 2-3 wks on getting a new 48v starter generator system fitted under warranty, audi uk knew the car was remapped because it comes up with a code TD1 on audi software, and had a tow bar fitted but still carried on with the warranty work

 

i got the car back and it broke down on my driveway with the same fault electrical systems failure on the 28^th march, i tried to reject the car with the dealer principle James eccles but he refused rejection

 

i instructed my solicitor who was in negotiations audi blackburn, they said we haven't had our chance to repair under the CRA 2015 before rejection can take place, we let them recover the car on the 17^th july to fix it, so 4 months later with no second car, they had the car until the 8^th august, the car was returned fixed

 

But then on the 11^th august  the car broke down with me again saying electric system failure, and is still park outside with this problem, after they was meant to fix it

 

I have searched the internet Audi forum regarding this problem and so many people are experienced the same problem with this. 48v starter generator on the RS6 

 

So Blackburn audi are saying no to the rejection because the car has been heavily modified, with the remap and towbar and said that is what has caused the problem, so no warranty is on the car

 

if that was the case audi stirling wouldn’t of fixed the car in the first place under warranty,  and blackburn audi wouldn’t of fixed it either in august

 

The car is not fit for purpose and is dangerously unroadworthy 

 

so we are taking them to court!

 

J

 

[NikHussain]

Sorry to hear that, I was working my way up to an RS6 but now I'm not so sure.

I think we need a collective lawsuit to get justice for everyone affected.  This fault can or will have catastrophic consequences at some point.

Would be good to follow your progress.  Cheers and good luck.

 

37 minutes ago, JASENRS6 said:

Hi Everyone

 

 

My wife bought a new AUDI RS6 on the 9^th may 2023 from audi blackburn in lancashire for the Sum of £119,000 it was a cash Purchase 

 

The car was remapped ie engine upgrade on the 1/7/23 by a company called DMS Automotive, this was just purely for better mpg, 

the car had a towbar fitted on the 5/3/24 by buchans of Glasgow

 

The car created a major fault on the 10/3/24 with 1550 miles on the clock, and coming up with 21 faults on the AA Mechanics screen, of a electrical system failure, ie the 48v starter generator yellow light then 15 mins later red light into cut out in a busy road junction 

 

The car was recovered to Stirling audi to get fixed because there booking system was showing the earliest appointments available, the car was there for 2-3 wks on getting a new 48v starter generator system fitted under warranty, audi uk knew the car was remapped because it comes up with a code TD1 on audi software, and had a tow bar fitted but still carried on with the warranty work

 

i got the car back and it broke down on my driveway with the same fault electrical systems failure on the 28^th march, i tried to reject the car with the dealer principle James eccles but he refused rejection

 

i instructed my solicitor who was in negotiations audi blackburn, they said we haven't had our chance to repair under the CRA 2015 before rejection can take place, we let them recover the car on the 17^th july to fix it, so 4 months later with no second car, they had the car until the 8^th august, the car was returned fixed

 

But then on the 11^th august  the car broke down with me again saying electric system failure, and is still park outside with this problem, after they was meant to fix it

 

I have searched the internet Audi forum regarding this problem and so many people are experienced the same problem with this. 48v starter generator on the RS6 

 

So Blackburn audi are saying no to the rejection because the car has been heavily modified, with the remap and towbar and said that is what has caused the problem, so no warranty is on the car

 

if that was the case audi stirling wouldn’t of fixed the car in the first place under warranty,  and blackburn audi wouldn’t of fixed it either in august

 

The car is not fit for purpose and is dangerously unroadworthy 

 

so we are taking them to court!

 

J

 

[DADSQ7]

On 8/16/2024 at 5:13 PM, DADSQ7 said:

Ok, as was predictable, Audi Technical have instructed Leicester to guess further and have asked us to pay £1,700 to replace the voltage converter… to see if that fixes this !Removed! show. 

We ALL know the faults originate from the alternator but until the computer says so, it’s let’s guess at your expense time. 

I suspect we’ve replaced the battery for no good reason, and now the voltage converter. When we’ve paid for everything downstream of the alternator, and it still doesn’t work, they’ll replace the alternator. By then we’ll have paid best part of £5k. Wouldn’t want to bet my house on ever seeing that again. 

Little update now we’re firmly into week six. Leicester have done the donoring of a voltage converter (at their cost 🎉) and then test driven it, to make sure it’s all ok. Fault returned very quickly! 
Now we’re waiting for Audi Technical who have referred it to the “factory”, to tell us what we knew 6 carless weeks, £2,800, and a load of waffle ago! 
 

Donoring parts IS just guessing. They can call it guided fault finding, but it’s just guessing, at your expense. Don’t be fobbed off by them doing this, it’s just simple incompetence, and/or badly designed systems on VW group cars. 

This was diagnosed as an alternator fault 6 weeks ago by the AA, and Audi UK had the audacity to say that I was guessing!