DieSel-Q Posted January 17 Posted January 17 On 1/14/2025 at 11:28 PM, DieSel-Q said: Mine has been at the dealer for a week now. Confirmed there's a drain, but don't know why... Day 12 ...
JohnfromEssex Posted January 24 Posted January 24 I am yet another victim of this horrible electrical failure. My 19 plate A6 50TDi had 2 complete electrical failures around 12 months ago, exactly as documented previously in this thread. My car was with an independent Audi specialist with whom I have been a customer for many years. Under guidance from Audi Germany, they remade all the earthing point connections associated with the system and, for almost a year, I had no further issues. A few weeks ago the yellow warning light appeared again, however I switched off the car at the "Electrical Fault Contact Workshop" stage, left it for a while and allowed it to reset. It's been fine since although my Audi specialists ran a diagnostic test and found the alternator had put out 53V which apparently triggered the warning light. The alternator itself is apparently not in fault mode (yet) but like many others in this thread I have completely lost confidence in the car and the MHEV system in general. This is my 4th Audi with the 3.0TDi engine, which I think is fantastic and have clocked up some big mileages in the previous cars but I simply don't trust this one now. I don't want to have the alternator changed before it fails completely (and possibly claim on the 7 year warranty) unless I am 100% certain that a replacement will solve all the problems. So, to my question. Does anyone have any thoughts as to whether this whole issue has now been solved on more recent production cars, e.g. from 2023 onwards? Is it only related to an initial poor batch of alternators or is it likely an ongoing problem with even recent models with this MHEV system? I am likely going to change the car soon and naturally this will affect my choice of replacement. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.
DieSel-Q Posted January 24 Posted January 24 I don't know, but this was an earlier thread on another Audi forum. https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d5-platform-discussion-221/belt-starter-generator-fixed-3069220/ Im like you - the 3.0 TDi has been great over the years - economical, quick, reliable usable. My A8 is brilliant, but it could be fallible. Waiting dealer...
m17cpl Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Hi All, So i have had the dreaded alternator issue occur. Thanks to the independent Audi garage that first looked at the car for me they were able to advise on the Audi 7 year extended warranty and potential "goodwill" gesture. I had the car moved to the Audi garage near me for them to look and diagnose the same problem as the first garage. Thanks to this forum and this thread i was able to let them know of this goodwill gesture and they agreed to cover all the costs. When i called for an update on the repair i was then told that it still is not starting and that they need to run additional tests. This morning i have finally heard back and been advised that a new battery and associated parts are now required at the sum of 2,182GBP! They are however will to give another goodwill gesture and reduce this to 1282GBP. What are everyone's thoughts on this? I See this as pure cheek! It was the broken and defective alternator that has caused the battery issues and as such that should also be covered, but before i go back o them i would appreciate your thoughts. 1
DieSel-Q Posted January 27 Posted January 27 If yours is nearly 9 years old (?) I'd be inclined to accept anything they give you ! What exactly are they replacing? Mine is in again for checks but it's newer so I'd expect the 7 year to apply.
m17cpl Posted January 27 Posted January 27 33 minutes ago, DieSel-Q said: If yours is nearly 9 years old (?) I'd be inclined to accept anything they give you ! What exactly are they replacing? Mine is in again for checks but it's newer so I'd expect the 7 year to apply. Its a 2017 model, so is 8yrs old. And they have advised its the engine battery and all the applicable coding that needs to happen. I have just heard back from the Audi specialist i used previously and they provided a quote of 1800GBP to replace and program so perhaps this is correct. What the specialist did say though was the battery should never have died like that, and the reason it would have is because of the fault on the alternator. Ill see what happens when the service manager calls later.
DieSel-Q Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, m17cpl said: Its a 2017 model, so is 8yrs old. And they have advised its the engine battery and all the applicable coding that needs to happen. I have just heard back from the Audi specialist i used previously and they provided a quote of 1800GBP to replace and program so perhaps this is correct. What the specialist did say though was the battery should never have died like that, and the reason it would have is because of the fault on the alternator. Ill see what happens when the service manager calls later. Forgive me though - I don't think the 2017 is a mild hybrid with 48v system is it? The alternator wouldn't be the same as the belt starter generator - that's the only type that's covered and only for certain 'PR' codes. I think it was 2019 before the q7 changed to the new system. I'd take the goodwill offer but I can't understand the price if it's just a battery (plus labour). I'd asked them for the part price alone and then phone another Audi dealer to check, before calling them back. Edited January 27 by DieSel-Q
Mark2 Posted January 30 Posted January 30 I have been in correspondence with DVSA for the last 6 months including requesting FOI data in the dealings with Audi, their responses have been lamentable as you have seen from previous posts. However I am not giving up as they are suggesting FOI data cannot be released as it is confidential and I need to ask Audi, which I will do but have also gone back to DVSA as they are inconsistent with their answers. If anyone wants to raise this with them pleaae do so as they have an ongoing investigation ther more pressure the better. Here is my reply to DVSA- Dear Ms Keeling, Ref 2409-056095 FOI Request Relating to Audi 48v/12v mild hybrid failures Thank you for your letter dated 22 January. I regret the lack of transparency from your Agency gives me grave concern hence my further questions. If we go back to first principles, DVSA is a Govt body with the strap line ‘Helping you stay safe on Britain’s roads’, which is exactly what my questions are aiming to do. However, it appears from your answers and reticence at being open that you are actually more interested in protecting manufacturers than the British Public. My justification for saying that is because of what I see are inconsistencies in DVSA’s responses to my questions STAGE ONE 1] What are the visual and audible warnings triggered when the alternator fails to charge? You state you do not hold this information. However, in your email 15 August you stated -Our understanding of the failure modes is the vehicle has a two-stage warning both of which are visual and acoustic, and the vehicle fully meets type approval requirements. You must therefore hold this information or the response of 15 August is not true. This information is not classified by you as being client confidential as it must be in the public domain, meets type approval and must form part of your ongoing investigation. 2] How is the driver informed that the failure is that the alternator is no longer charging the battery? You state you do not hold this information. However, in your email 15 August you stated-Should there be a failure of the alternator, the warning strategy is triggered You know the warning strategy is triggered as you have said so, I am asking what this is. You could not make this statement unless you know what it is so you must hold this information. 3] How does this stage warn the driver that continued vehicle use will lead to ‘roll out’ and that he should park the vehicle safely as soon as possible? You state you do not hold this information. However, in your email 15 August you stated -Should there be a failure of the alternator, continued use will cause the vehicle “to roll out” and coast to a stop. If you know continued use will lead to Roll out you know if there is a warning to the driver of this fact YES or NO. If you do not hold this information is the question part of your on-going investigation. Why have you not asked the manufacturer to answer this as it is fundamental to this safety issue? 4] How long does Stage One last before Stage Two kicks in? You state you do not hold this information which is consistent with your 15 August email but you go on further to say the warning messages provided ‘have been considered acceptable through type approval processes’ Therefore, you must know all the warning messages which are produced so you must have the answers to my stage One and Stage two questions In your letter 22 January you state that the answers to the above questions are available in the manufacturers handbooks which is not the case. There would not be a multimillion USD law suit in the USA relating to this safety issue if it was covered in the handbook nor would hundreds of UK motorists be subjected to dangerous vehicle roll outs if this were covered in the handbooks On 6 November you advised me -We have withheld information that falls within the scope of your request under section 31(2)(c) (the purpose of ascertaining whether circumstances which would justify regulatory action in pursuance of any enactment exist or may arise) of the FoIA. This is because we believe that the release of the information would be likely to harm our ability to effectively conduct future investigations into whether regulatory action is required against any manufacturer Now we are talking about a safety issue where the British public are safeguarded by the DVSA why have you not asked the manufacturer if you can release information? Your email 22 January states Section 43(2) (commercial interests) of the FoIA was also applied to the request for correspondence. I confirm that this exemption was correctly applied. In my opinion there is a risk that other manufacturers could use this data to obtain an advantage over Audi and its competitors. This statement by you has the effect of you protecting the profits, reputation and brand image of a manufacturer rather than the safety of the British Public. Considering all manufacturers are concentrating on EV technology exposing answers to the safety issue is hardly going to given any competitors an advantage. This in my view is a convenient statement for you to hide behind rather than probe the manufacturer for answers. This is totally inconsistent with your stating ‘you do not hold this specific information’. Either you hold it but will not release it because you value your cosy relationship with the manufacturers or you do not hold it. The more I read back over this correspondence for the last 6 months the more I get the impression that DVSA have no teeth when dealing with manufacturers, you appear to accept manufacture’s statements at face value, there is little probing by you and then you put up a screen of smoke and mirrors and of FOI legislation to wriggle out of what you see as awkward questions but what I see as a member of the British public as fundamental vehicle safety issues which , by the grace of god , have not yet led to any fatalities. Please reflect on your inconsistencies and respond in clear concise terms with believable answers.
DieSel-Q Posted January 30 Posted January 30 I don't think BBC Watchdog is up to much these days in terms of resource but I suppose it you have a few case stories of a 'lucky to escape' nature that you can put together and then present a summary of the response from DVSA and Audi to them? Everything is about damage (cost) limitation so make it expensive in terms of bad publicity ?
saifq7 Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Hi everyone, I’ve encountered the same issue with my 2020 Q7. I contacted my local Audi dealership, and they acted as though this was the first time they’d ever heard of it. They’ve told me I need to pay £150 for an inspection before they can diagnose the problem. I received an email from them advising me not to follow forums, mentioning they may offer a goodwill gesture, but they cannot guarantee anything. I’m taking the car to Audi tomorrow via tow truck, so let’s see what they say. If anyone has any advice on how to get them to repair it or get them to take responsibility, it would be much appreciated.
NikHussain Posted February 6 Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, saifq7 said: Hi everyone, I’ve encountered the same issue with my 2020 Q7. I contacted my local Audi dealership, and they acted as though this was the first time they’d ever heard of it. They’ve told me I need to pay £150 for an inspection before they can diagnose the problem. I received an email from them advising me not to follow forums, mentioning they may offer a goodwill gesture, but they cannot guarantee anything. I’m taking the car to Audi tomorrow via tow truck, so let’s see what they say. If anyone has any advice on how to get them to repair it or get them to take responsibility, it would be much appreciated. See my next post
NikHussain Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Update for everyone: So my 48v Alternator went duff last August, Audi Roadside Assistance sent out the AA who did a little roadside check and confirmed it was the 48v Alternator. Slough Audi who'm my car is fully maintained with also denied any knowledge of a 7 year extended warranty and asked me to get the car to them which would've cost me around £200 as i live in Luton and then i'd also need to pay the £150 diagnostics charge and ontop of that, they wouldn't be able to look at the car straight away, it would be 4 days from that point as they were "busy". Audi UK also denied any knowledge of the 7 year extended warranty, that lead me to bite the bullet and just get the work done with whoever could do it the quickest which was an independant garage, they ordered me an OEM Alternator and fitted it, the car was off the road for 3 days in total which from reading some of the horror stories in this forum is alot quicker than the dealerships could do. I decided to check with Audi UK today if there's been any change/acknowledgment regarding the 7 year extended warranty and I just got off the phone now (6th Feb) with Audi UK and the agent confirmed that there is an extended warranty on the 48v alternator as long as the part number matches. I asked for a date of when that bulletin or information came to them and he replied July 2024. I reminded the agent of the fight i had with Audi UK back in August last year where they flat rejected any notion of an extended warranty but my issue now is that as i got the work done privately there's no compensation they can offer. @saifq7 you're better off getting the inspection/diagnostic done by the dealer and then claim it back once you remind them that Audi UK have confirmed that there is an Extended warranty on the 48v Alternator. I remember emailing a 'John Corcoran' of the DVSA back then who was compiling information from Audi owners that were affected by this issue, i never heard anything back about that so i'll chase him up as i think i should be owed some compensation for being lied to and paying over 2k out of my own pocket for a part that there is a recall/extneded warranty on. Regards Anique
DADSQ7 Posted February 6 Posted February 6 33 minutes ago, saifq7 said: Hi everyone, I’ve encountered the same issue with my 2020 Q7. I contacted my local Audi dealership, and they acted as though this was the first time they’d ever heard of it. They’ve told me I need to pay £150 for an inspection before they can diagnose the problem. I received an email from them advising me not to follow forums, mentioning they may offer a goodwill gesture, but they cannot guarantee anything. I’m taking the car to Audi tomorrow via tow truck, so let’s see what they say. If anyone has any advice on how to get them to repair it or get them to take responsibility, it would be much appreciated. See Nik’s post. This is our experience too. Denial, lies, deflection and !Removed! mindedness. Just remember, even though you think Audi care about you or their reputation, they don’t. Which dealer are you going to? My advice. The only way you will have any chance of getting anything paid is to follow their procedure to the letter. We deviated after 7 weeks, and insisted the part be replaced. As we did that, they denied any further entertaining of any claim. This is even when 7 weeks should be considered unreasonable. Be prepared to be without a car for a long time, or, just have the part replaced and pay the £2k and get on with your life. Even after months of waiting, they’ll likely wriggle out of it anyway, and by then they’ll have made you pay for their guided diagnostics, which is just guessing by swapping parts from a car in stock, and pay for parts that don’t need replacing such as the 48v battery and/or the inverter. Don’t think Audi executive office will help either. Our experience leads us to think there’s a big cover up in which the dealer and head office are together being made to save costs under the extended warranty issued, but make your own mind up based on how you get on. I really wish you all the luck in the world, you’ll need it.
DieSel-Q Posted February 7 Posted February 7 Mine has a drain that Audi can't find. Despite 2 x 2 week periods in the dealer. No BSG failure (yet) To add to the above, Audi would now need me to authorise £1000 of Labour (based on hours needed) to strip the rear of the car and examine everything else to find the drain / spike. Because 1) The Audi Approved Used Extended Warranty does not cover wiring (full stop) if it is a wiring issue. 2) Despite all the time in the workshop and technical assistance, they cannot determine where the issue is. Gateway controller is mentioned but they don't know without testing every module. So, it's catch 22. I'm taking it back and I have put Uber on my phone in case it dies on the road. Then the dealer would see what needs replacing. 35,000m with FASH.
K slade Posted February 11 Posted February 11 We are another victim of the 48v electrical system failure - in December whilst on the M62 “smart” motorway we got the yellow electrical failure warning. Soon after the windows started misting up. We continued, not realising what the issue could be, until a red warning came on to tell us to stop the car and a Christmas tree of warning lights followed within about 30 seconds of the red light. Luckily we were in slow moving traffic & just at an exit - we managed to get off the motorway and stop on the slip road hard shoulder. Power steering had gone and all instrument clusters went black - very scary stuff, particularly as the last few miles had no hard shoulder. Got recovered by AA and taken home - next morning no warning lights, and car apparently working fine. Took it to JCT Audi York and told the 12v battery needed replacing as it had spent too long below 12v. Told them about the threads, the US class action and extended warranties - also said we didn’t believe the fault could just be the 12v. They wouldn’t move past changing the battery though, so we did this (£600 inc vat). They kept it for some time to put some miles on it to check the battery was working okay, and we got the car back about a month later. The very next day - first journey on M62 to Manchester airport and yellow electrical failure warning came on again after about 60 miles - this time right on the tops. Pulled off, got out for 10 mins but decided to continue with the light on. Air con stayed on, which was a relief & we got to our destination. Next morning, no warning lights, car working ’normally’. Left it at airport for a week and drove home last night - no warning lights, but not sure if that’s because I made my husband stop at hartshead services (in my muddled mind for it to reset itself). Car is now back at Audi York & we’re waiting for the report. We’ve got a nice non 48v A5 coupe as a courtesy - I would like to keep this! 12 months ago the same car spent a month at Audi York having the entire adblu system replaced at a cost of £3500 - Audi covered all bar £500 after we spoke to Audi uk and managed to persuade them that this shouldn’t need replacing in a 5 year old car with only 45k miles on the clock. We joke that January is its annual month at the workshop, but honestly it’s infuriating and worrying what this will end up costing us and what might go wrong next. I myself will not drive this car again - it scares me and scares me that my husband will drive it (he’s off to Manc airport again on Saturday….) I’ve been pouring over this thread today and I see a lot of these issues with Q7s and RS6s, but not so many A6s - has anyone had any luck with extended warranties or goodwill gestures on this model? 1
JohnfromEssex Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Further to my above post 3 weeks ago, my A6 has reluctantly now been traded in with Audi and I have a replacement car. A shame because I really like the A6 (my 3rd) but could not tolerate the inherent unreliability and likely forthcoming big bills. I have spent time googling Audi + Vitesco, then making use of google translate and reading the various posts on the German websites and forums. (For those not aware, Vitesco appears to be the manufacturer of 48V equipment for these models including the notorious BSG or RSG in German - RiemenStarterGenerator). Clearly liability and fault for all these problems is a major discussion between the two companies which seems far from resolution according to the reports and will be hugely expensive however the legal process pans out. One piece of perhaps relevant information from the motor-talk.de forums suggests that the early "potentially faulty" BSGs had a serial number commencing in 4N0, whereas the SN of the more recent "good" BSGs commence with 4N1. So to possibly answer my own question, I reckon the more recent models with the 48V system may well have the issue fully sorted, which is a glimmer of good news for those such as me who like the concept of the system, despite the poor execution of it. Perhaps surprisingly, I remain a fan of Audi cars as a brand, though the company's poor handling and lack of ownership of the whole BSG issue is simply dreadful. Nonetheless, to anyone buying a new or used Audi with the 48V MHEV system, a long extended warranty would be a very good investment I reckon. 3
DieSel-Q Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 hour ago, K slade said: We are another victim of the 48v electrical system failure - in December whilst on the M62 “smart” motorway we got the yellow electrical failure warning. Soon after the windows started misting up. We continued, not realising what the issue could be, until a red warning came on to tell us to stop the car and a Christmas tree of warning lights followed within about 30 seconds of the red light. Luckily we were in slow moving traffic & just at an exit - we managed to get off the motorway and stop on the slip road hard shoulder. Power steering had gone and all instrument clusters went black - very scary stuff, particularly as the last few miles had no hard shoulder. Got recovered by AA and taken home - next morning no warning lights, and car apparently working fine. Took it to JCT Audi York and told the 12v battery needed replacing as it had spent too long below 12v. Told them about the threads, the US class action and extended warranties - also said we didn’t believe the fault could just be the 12v. They wouldn’t move past changing the battery though, so we did this (£600 inc vat). They kept it for some time to put some miles on it to check the battery was working okay, and we got the car back about a month later. The very next day - first journey on M62 to Manchester airport and yellow electrical failure warning came on again after about 60 miles - this time right on the tops. Pulled off, got out for 10 mins but decided to continue with the light on. Air con stayed on, which was a relief & we got to our destination. Next morning, no warning lights, car working ’normally’. Left it at airport for a week and drove home last night - no warning lights, but not sure if that’s because I made my husband stop at hartshead services (in my muddled mind for it to reset itself). Car is now back at Audi York & we’re waiting for the report. We’ve got a nice non 48v A5 coupe as a courtesy - I would like to keep this! 12 months ago the same car spent a month at Audi York having the entire adblu system replaced at a cost of £3500 - Audi covered all bar £500 after we spoke to Audi uk and managed to persuade them that this shouldn’t need replacing in a 5 year old car with only 45k miles on the clock. We joke that January is its annual month at the workshop, but honestly it’s infuriating and worrying what this will end up costing us and what might go wrong next. I myself will not drive this car again - it scares me and scares me that my husband will drive it (he’s off to Manc airport again on Saturday….) I’ve been pouring over this thread today and I see a lot of these issues with Q7s and RS6s, but not so many A6s - has anyone had any luck with extended warranties or goodwill gestures on this model? Sorry about the A6. You have a private message from me 're York!
DieSel-Q Posted February 13 Posted February 13 On 2/11/2025 at 7:58 PM, DieSel-Q said: Sorry about the A6. You have a private message from me 're York! x 2
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