Alternator failure related to mild hybrid system?

[DADSQ7]

Absolutely fuming. Not getting anywhere. 

[Mark2]

Have you written to Mr Doyle at Audi UK, this is the way to get results.

[Audi Death Trap]

We will not honour the extended warranty. We will not provide a courtesy car. We will not provide a hire car. Your life was endangered as a result of a manufacturing defect and we will do nothing. Welcome to Audi.

[Mark2]

I am really sorry David but I have no axe to grind. I’m requesting FoI date from DVSA and will not let this go. However if you can use what Audi have done for me to improve your situation I am happy to pitch in and help.

[DADSQ7]

3 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Have you written to Mr Doyle at Audi UK, this is the way to get results.

I haven’t. Looking back I can’t see his contact details, so if you could point me in the right direction I’d appreciate it. I have a case open with Audi UK. 

[DADSQ7]

4 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Have you written to Mr Doyle at Audi UK, this is the way to get results.

Actually, just looked him up. He appears to have left Audi recently. 

[Mark2]

It’s Audi.executiveoffice@audi.co.uk

[DADSQ7]

25 minutes ago, Mark2 said:

It’s Audi.executiveoffice@audi.co.uk

Yeah, that address rejects incoming mail. I’ve sent it to the new chap Jose.Miguel.Aparicio@audi.co.uk

thanks 

[syd107]

Just adding to the thread here - My 2021 Audi A7 had exactly this issue the other week. It got dropped off at Audi Stockport today, and after I highlighted this as a known issue, I've just had a follow-up call to confirm the repair will be covered entirely by "Goodwill" and the extended part warranty I mentioned to Audi. It was only a few weeks out of 3-year warranty, so I feared the worst.

I would have been interested to see if this was offered without my prompting. I didn't have to push that hard, and I was definitely more well-armed from the comments and references in this thread than I needed to be!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the comments and hopefully the above helps someone else

Edited October 21 by syd107

[Bingomighty]

By way of update, the repairs to my A7 55TFSI in France were completed (replacement of starter generator with part no. 4N1903028 and ancilliaries) 2 weeks ago and I travelled to France to drive my car back last week (arranged by Audi Assistance). I was not able to travel sooner because of other commitments. Everything seems fine with the car. 

Audi Executive Office had agreed to reimburse the repair cost if I paid first which I did. I sent off the paperwork about a week ago and the Audi Executive Office called yesterday to say payment was in hand. I received a bank transfer today via my local UK dealer.

All in all, apart from the dangers inherent in complete electrical failure on a French autoroute in heavy rain and the general frustration of it all, I think it was a reasonable outcome.

If I did not already have a service plan to cover my imminent 40,000 service, I would have had the service done in France too. The dealer labour rates seem to be about 50% of UK rates.

[Alrawis]

I got my car back from Cheshire oaks Audi finally last week. Had to wait about 3 weeks. All covered with goodwill (as was out of warranty).

 

not sure if it’s just me, but has anyone who has had this repair noticed that certain features like seat heating, climate control and rear screen demister are not as powerful as they used to be?

 

might be imagining things, but wondering also if Audi have maybe tweaked how much power these features receive to alleviate this issue moving forwards?

Edited November 7 by Alrawis

[Mark2]

Did not notice any changes in my RS6, all back to normal, but those are the items to kill if the yellow lights come on again

[Lucair]

Hello,

Seems I had the same alternator issue with my car disengaging gear, stopping in the middle of the road and throwing error messages. I am waiting for Audi to check the car. Anyone had luck with Alternator replacement out of warranty in Luxembourg (or Germany)? My RS6 is a 2021 version, so warranty expired.

[DieSel-Q]

Does the car have to fail / be recovered before they cover the BSG under the 7 year warranty ?

Mine is due a service and has had a couple of symptoms, but is still running ok ...I

I've always switched off start stop and disabled coasting.

[Bingomighty]

I suspect it is a question of diagnostics.
Most people who have had a failure have had a sequence of yellow warning lights followed by red ‘stop immediately’ warnings.

[DieSel-Q]

16 minutes ago, Bingomighty said:

I suspect it is a question of diagnostics.
Most people who have had a failure have had a sequence of yellow warning lights followed by red ‘stop immediately’ warnings.

I just wondered if it needed to fail first ?

When I bought the car a year ago it was back within a week for a new battery because of yellow low battery warnings. They checked the BSG, and it's been all fine until a year later when I've had a couple of loud buzzes not long after starting, one low battery warning - 'charge when driving', and I'm 90% sure that the stop start was greyed out after driving once ( I always turn it off).

 

 

 

[DADSQ7]

To conclude, Customer relations manager David Millard 0113 526 4262, from the executive office, has concluded that the dealership did everything correctly, and therefore the £6k spent was fine. Nothing to see here. No problem with this level customer service. No problem letting my parents leave the premises after being told it was fixed, for them to be back within 1 day and almost get stranded again. Not problem taking over 7 week ignoring us telling them what the problem was. No problem in it being us insisting and paying for the Starter Generator which has fully fixed the car. No problem that many others have had it paid. Judge and jury much! Funnily enough, it was never how the dealership dealt with it that was the complaint, it was how Audi UK had them by the balls all the way along. They had no choice in what they did. What a way to have to do your job. I kind of feel sorry for them. They knew all along what the objective was. I don’t think I could do their job, of being knowingly deceitful for the £££. 
 

So, I do wonder what was the cheque for £1,500 was for, from them? 

that’s me signing off from this thread now. I want to take it further but out of respect for my parents, who have had enough of it, I’ll leave it now. 
 

All I’d recommend, for anyone with this issue where they won’t play ball, is to insist on the dealership “donoring” a starter generator first. Agree with them that if that works, the warranty applies. This might cut short the loss of your car by about 6 weeks. 
 

best of luck!

[NikHussain]

29 minutes ago, DADSQ7 said:

To conclude, Customer relations manager David Millard 0113 526 4262, from the executive office, has concluded that the dealership did everything correctly, and therefore the £6k spent was fine. Nothing to see here. No problem with this level customer service. No problem letting my parents leave the premises after being told it was fixed, for them to be back within 1 day and almost get stranded again. Not problem taking over 7 week ignoring us telling them what the problem was. No problem in it being us insisting and paying for the Starter Generator which has fully fixed the car. No problem that many others have had it paid. Judge and jury much! Funnily enough, it was never how the dealership dealt with it that was the complaint, it was how Audi UK had them by the balls all the way along. They had no choice in what they did. What a way to have to do your job. I kind of feel sorry for them. They knew all along what the objective was. I don’t think I could do their job, of being knowingly deceitful for the £££. 
 

So, I do wonder what was the cheque for £1,500 was for, from them? 

that’s me signing off from this thread now. I want to take it further but out of respect for my parents, who have had enough of it, I’ll leave it now. 
 

All I’d recommend, for anyone with this issue where they won’t play ball, is to insist on the dealership “donoring” a starter generator first. Agree with them that if that works, the warranty applies. This might cut short the loss of your car by about 6 weeks. 
 

best of luck!

Good luck Luke, when it happened to me I decided to deal with it privately and got the car back on on road after 3 days costing £1900 out my pocket.

My plan to get it back out of them is to force them to drop that much on a new/used car when I upgrade my current one. 

 

[DieSel-Q]

No fault found with mine at service, despite a couple of yellow battery warnings last week and some buzzing noises after start up. New battery fitted by Audi less than a year ago.

Have agreed for it to go back to have it charged / checked overnight in several weeks when a loan car is available. Fingers crossed - it has lasted nearly a year.

[Iha7]

Hi all, first time posting on the forum. I have a 2020 A7 50 tdi. The dreaded start stop warning has come on. I’m dropping the car off to Audi but wanted to check if this is part of the 7 year warranty claim? Thanks for your help

[Iha7]

On 7/5/2024 at 2:18 PM, RKaur said:

That’s frustrating, but thanks for replying.

 

I wonder if an FOI request will make them step up properly and send out a UK wide TSB?

 

there seems to be enough of us in the UK across the VW group who are having the same issue. But like you said, where US customers have rallied together, there’s not something like that here…yet!

 

Hi, just checking how you got on with the repair? My A7 has the same problem and I’m due to send it in for inspection. Hoping I can get the 7 year warranty goodwill. 

[Bingomighty]

As posted earlier, my repair was completed in France. A new starter generator Part No. 4N1903028 (which appears to be a newer version of ) was fitted under service ID procedure 27261943 plus ancillaries and coding.

I have driven the car back from France and it seems fine.

Audi UK agreed that, if I paid the Audi dealer in France, they would reimburse me which they did within less than a week.

Whether your car is covered by the extended warranty is a matter of diagnosis. If you look at the Audi bulletins on this forum, the extended warranty covers cars with PR number 9G8 (look on the sticker on the inside page of your handbook).

Warranty extention for starter generators.pdf

 

[Mark2]

I have just had a response from the DVSA regarding my FOI request regarding Audi's respose to them. They have not send me any FOI info siting two sensitive issues which I think are BS and either a cover up for their inefficiency or the hope I will go away. I am escalating this to a DVSA internal review with my response below-

Dear sirs,

I am unhappy with the response from DVSA which has provided me with no information and the excuses appear perfunctory.

It also may indicate lack of probing by the DVSA into the responses given by Audi and there is some back covering going on. I do hope that is not  the case the DVSA must be  working in the public interest.

 

The two reasons for your failing to provide me with FOI information are summarised as follows :

• Section 31 -disclosure of info may harm your ability to obtain info in the future

• Section 43 -the information requested is commercially sensitive and could be used by any competitor to Audi

 

I should like therefore to address each of my questions and test those against your reasoning above

STAGE ONE

 

1] What are the visual and audible warnings triggered when the alternator fails to charge?

This is a reasonable question and Audi have stated to you there is a two stage warning so that is in the public domain, they must have designed the mild hybrid cars with such systems and they would have advised users what those warnings were, otherwise they would not have designed any warnings. How can this answer possibly fall within Section 31 or 43?

2] How is the driver informed that the failure is that the alternator is no longer charging the battery?

Vehicle manufacturers have generally for the last 80 years provided a warning lamp on the dash to warn the driver that the Dynamo/ alternator is no longer charging the battery. This is not a new system which could provide a competitor an advantage and it can hardly be regarded answering it as jeopardising the DVSA relationship with manufacturers.

3] How does this stage warn the driver that continued vehicle use will lead to ‘roll out’ and that he should park the vehicle safely as soon as possible ?

This is actually what happens , any Audi competitor can discover this is what happens by searching on the internet or by replicating the failure in an Audi vehicle. Competitors buy their opponents vehicles all the time to check them out. These vehicle were designed 5-8 years ago so are not exactly cutting edge technology. As this is what occurs and in the public domain how can the answers possibly fall within your sections above.

4] How long does Stage One last before Stage Two kicks in?

A reasonable question as Audi have declared there are two stages how can there be a secret about when they occur?

5] What does ‘the Code’ state is the reasonable warnings and time given to the driver to take action

This is a question for the DVSA as it relates to your Code. How can your answering a question about your own procedures be governed by commercial sensitivity to a manufacturer?

 

STAGE TWO

1] What are the visual and acoustic warnings triggered at stage two?

This is a reasonable question and Audi have stated to you there is a two stage warning so that is in the public domain, they must have designed the mild hybrid cars with such systems and they would have advised users what those warnings were, otherwise they would not have designed any warnings. How can this answer possibly fall within Section 31 or 43?

2] How is the driver informed that he is now in Stage Two and this is becoming more critical?

A reasonable question as Audi have declared there are two stages how can there be a secret about when they occur and their urgency? This is just the sort of driver info that the DVSA should be ensuring manufactures instal.

3] How does stage two warn the driver to stop as soon as possible and what is the average time frame between stage two activation and vehicle failure- ‘roll out’ ?

Audi have declared the two stage warning, it is incomprehensible that the DVSA have not probed that further to establish the effectiveness of such a two stage system. This has no commercially sensitive info but is critical for any driver experiencing full vehicle shut down and as such must be in the DVSA’s remit to publish the answer.

4] What is the Code spec for stage two?

This is a question for the DVSA as it relates to your Code. How can your answering a question about your own procedures be governed by commercial sensitivity to a manufacturer?

 

I look forward to a full investigation and the DVSA providing answers which are of paramount safety interest to all Audi Mild Hybrid vehicle drivers.

[DieSel-Q]

Well done for pursuing.

It will probably take another voice to support your concerns with the DVSA follow up in order to get a favourable response. Safety-related recalls normally require evidence of accidents or statements of failure where accidents were narrowly avoided. Lawyers won't be interested unless there is a claim or enough weight of claims to be made, and Audi will be about £ damage limitation. Is it worth contacting someone like the AA or RAC or some other lobbyist ? Maybe not.

I suppose it could be argued that if Audi USA has a recall, it could either be for a safety or environmental (likely) reason. If Audi UK is using the global 7 year warranty claim path now without recall, they have clearly taken a commercial view rather that it is not a safety issue, and would surely have to share this with DVSA ?

 

Edited 8 hours ago by DieSel-Q

[DADSQ7]

Very good Mark2. if I can at all help or add any weight, just let me know what you think I can do. 
 

I said I wouldn’t post again, but they’ve now compounded the issue by being Judge and Jury on my case with them. They’ve invited me over to take it further with the ombudsman. Ok, I will! they are wrong, so I will win, if it’s a proper process. 
 

“If you remain unhappy, I can advise you of the services provided by The Motor Ombudsman, a CTSI-certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider that we are prepared to engage with through the ADR procedure. Please find their contact details below:

The Motor Ombudsman
71 Great Peter Street
London
SW1P 2BN

Tel: 0345 241 3008

www.themotorombudsman.org”