Alternator failure related to mild hybrid system?

[Mark2]

Cally, you are right, I am trying to get the BBC interested, can I copy and paste your story to them?

[Cally]

Hi Mark, Absolutely you can copy and paste. Thank you for asking.

[Mark2]

Did you escalate your complaint to Audi UK to Andrew Doyle Chief Exec, if you did not you need to address a complaint to him

[Mark2]

You need to write an email addressed to Andrew Doyle and send it to executive.office@audi.co.uk

he will read it and get one of his senior staff to address it.

[Cally]

Thank you for providing the email address for Andrew Doyle. I have notified the dealership and the Audi Escalation Team of my intention to contact him. I had hoped the threat alone might suffice, but so far not even an acknowledgement of my email.

[Mark2]

You need to write an email addressed to Andrew Doyle and send it to executive.office@audi.co.uk

he will read it and get one of his senior staff to address it.

Forget being nice go direct to the top and Do not take NO for wan answer.

[JASENRS6]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:06 PM, Mark2 said:

Cally, you are right, I am trying to get the BBC interested, can I copy and paste your story to them?

Hi mark2

I have just got Ian Ferguson from reject my car in Glasgow involved in my case, he has been on the BBC for rip off Britain, regarding faulty cars

so watch this space!!

he has been highly recommended to me from a very good source and has excellent customer reviews 

 

J

[Mark2]

Well done, I am working on Matt Allright BBC consumer rights journalist. Just sent him Cally’ s story 

[Mark2]

I now have a reply from Audi UK Executive office see below and my response

Dear Mr Hayward

I hope all is well?

Thank you for your patience while we have reviewed your case.

I can completely appreciate the points you have raised regarding the warning messages on your vehicle and the situation you and your family were placed in. I can assure you, any of us including myself would have felt the same way if were in that situation.

While I apprecate we are unable to predict what could have happened as a result of the faults on the vehicle, I can definitely sympathise with your viewpoints and thought behind what could have happened. When a certain issue arises with the vehicle, we have assistance in place such as our breakdown services, the AA.

Please rest assured, your thoughts and suggestions will be fed back to our design team regarding the alert messages on the dashboard. Often changes are made off the back of customer comment and feedback.

I appreciate every point that has been raised and cannot apologise enough for the situation you experienced. While we are unable to change what has happened, we can definitely restore your faith by offering a gesture to recognise your experience.

There is no way to place a monetary gesture to describe what would be adequate here. Before I can position a gesture from my side, please can you confirm what your expectations are or if you have any suggestions you want me to explore?

I await your response.

Thank you for your response.

I am pleased that you and Audi UK appreciate the dangerous situation that the lack of warning caused to my family and me.

 

I note you appreciate what could have happened as a result of the Starter/generator failure but this did actually happen to an A6 Allroad , I reprint a summary of  her story below, pasted from Audi Owners Forum-

 

Posted Friday at 03:58 PM

I am currently in discussion with Audi UK regarding the 48v MHEV starter generator fault on my Audi A6 Allroad, which caused it to suffer a total catastrophic failure on a Swiss motorway on 6 January 2024. Just prior to joining the motorway we had descended a steep mountain pass.  If the vehicle had shutdown whilst descending the pass it would have been very difficult, potentially impossible, to stop the vehicle safely.  Our children were trapped in the back seats as we could not open the doors and our dog was trapped in the load space.

We travel to the Alps several times a year and I believe this vehicle to be unfit for purpose.  I have reported the vehicle as a dangerous vehicle to the Driving Standards Agency.  I have received a response that acknowledges a quality concern does exist, however, further investigation had been hampered by Audi refusing to release further information.  I do now have the technicians report and I will be submitting this along with other evidence and await the government departments response.

I have reviewed the Audi America Technical Bulletin (kindly posted on this forum by another member) which relates to this fault and it confirms that the fault affects vehicles throughout the Audi range.  I have also established that there were in fact a total of 50,000 cars in the UK affected by safety recalls for the same fault in June 2020 and October 2020.  This information was obtained from the UK government website.

Despite being a VW and Audi driver for over 20 years, I have totally lost faith in my car and the brand and requested a buy back and so the argument continues.......

I have suggested this owner writes to you  but as you can see the report describes what I advised could happen.

 

Although you suggest that some form of monetary compensation would help to my mind this is secondary. I clearly asked the following-

 

At no time did the MMI system warn that the battery was NOT charging, there is no such warning message. How can this be? For the last 100 years of car manufacture a red ign light illuminating was probably the first ever car component failure indicator, then ammeters were fitted then my last RS6 had a voltage meter. Either way for almost 100 years drivers have been advised that their battery is or is not being charged. At no time was I given any reasonable time indication that within X minutes the car would be undriveable.

WHY DOES AUDI THINK THAT IS NOW UNNESSARY TO PROVIDE A ‘NO CHARGE’ INDICATION?

 

As am Audi owner since the 1990’s I have always had faith in the brand to provide a trustworthy, quality, well-engineered product. To regain that trust I am looking for a recall where you install a software fix so the MMI system gives the drover adequate warning of component failure which could lead to catastrophic failure.

 

Can you please tell me if and when Audi will undertake this? If you are unable or unwilling and are happy to knowingly allow owners to drive unsafe vehicles then I too would appreciate a buy back.

[RSW]

That’s really well framed and articulated Mark2, common sense would indicate that they shouldn’t  ignore such a clear explanation of the risks especially when backed up with Cally’s experience. I dread to Imagine how many more examples there are out there. 

Let’s hope they wake up to this and stop playing the predictable game of placating / empathising - it’s covered by warranty nonsense, and actually do something material to develop the warning you describe.
 

At a software dev level I don’t get why they won’t just get on with it given the risks, irrespective of whether regs have caught up and mandate the need for it. They know how this fault has the potential to unfold so should really be assigning it to the development teams as an escalated priority to be included for development/integration and test in a specified release. They should then back that with a mandated recall to ensure the specified release update is applied to vehicles with this system. I bet the 12v battery charge level can be checked via an OBD scanner, if it can then they really have no excuse as that says the telemetry data is available but needs exposing via their in car GUI as a warning when it drops below a threshold and no charging is detected. 

Less hopeful side of me suspects it’s the air time with a consumer watchdog that will finally invoke material action on their part when they start worrying about the brand damage of being seen to let customers play Russian roulette with this fault and our not so smart “Smart Motorways” (or any road for that matter with this fault!).

 

[Cally]

Good Afternoon Mark and RSW,

Thank you for the update and sharing your eloquent communication.

I had been awaiting a response from my local dealership prior to contacting Andrew Doyle, in an effort to give them an opportunity to resolve this matter in a fair, reasonable and professional manner.

The anticipated call came in half an hour ago, confirming Andrew Doyle is the only option remaining. The dealership insist there was no outstanding recall on my car at the time of sale and insist there has been no recall on my vehicle for this fault.

The mysterious 7 year warranty that has appeared to cover the cost of repair, despite my vehicle allegedly being subject to no recall and being out of standard warranty, could not be explained. The starter generator recall on the government website advises  the number of affected vehicles to be circa. 50,000 vehicles. If the dealerships statement is correct, it means the actual number of vehicles affected is in reality significantly higher, mine being additional to the quoted number.

The dealership had no interest in responding to my comment that the vehicle was not fit for purpose.

I have now fully exhausted all avenues, so it is my intention to draft a letter to Andrew Doyle this evening.

Mr Doyle's executive office response, is it seems, as non-commital and disappointing as ever.

I will endeavour to follow your example in hitting hard, in the hope that the reality starts to dawn on Audi UK that this is a BIG problem which will not go away.

We are agreed, this is about safety and not money. If Audi will not take the necessary action and issue the requested assurances that design changes have been made, to restore my confidence in my car, then a buy back will unfortunately be the only acceptable resolution.

I will let you know when I have submitted my email and more importantly when a response is received.

Thank you again for your willingness to work together to drive this forward to what I hope will be a just conclusion. 

 

 

[Mark2]

I am very pleased we are singing from the same hymn sheet. It was my dealer who told me to do to Andrew Doyle and at least yiu get replies in writing. I am a bit like a Rottweiler, I do not let go. The more owners we can get to join us the better.

[Cally]

I'm the same, definitely 'a dog with a bone' but with good reason! I'll let you know how I get on

[Mark2]

I have now found the man responsible- Marcus Duesmann Board of Management responsible for Technical Development and Product Lines at Audi AG. Am trying to get his contact address.

[Cally]

Is this person in Ingolstadt?

[Cally]

Hi Mark,

I found this:

Duesmann left the company in 2023. He was succeeded by Gernot Döllner as Chairman of the Board of Management of Audi

[Mark2]

Well done, saves me embarrassment, got Markus from 2023 Who’s Who in the motor industry. I will change my request to Herr Dollner

[Mark2]

I now have an update from Audi UK and my response is below, by way of an update:

Dear Mr Hayward

I hope all is well?

Thank you for your email.

Thank you for sharing the experiences of other Audi owners and taking time to review this in your own time. While I fully appreciate your experience, I am unable to predict future faults of the car. I would like to assure you that we have fully taken on board your comments and viewpoints regarding your most recent experience.

Please rest assured, your thoughts and suggestions will be fed back to our design team regarding the alert messages on the dashboard. Often changes are made off the back of customer comment and feedback.

While we are unable to change what has happened, we can definitely restore your faith by offering a gesture to recognise your experience. Therefore, please can you advise what we can do for you?

Please note, any escalations to Audi Germany will be redirected back to the UK team, i.e the Executive Office as your vehicle is UK registered, therefore will faull under our jurisdiction.

I await your response.

Dear Feranza,

Thank you for your response but I am still not getting a straight answer.

 

Firstly, I do not know if there is a misunderstanding but I am not expecting you to predict future faults in my car. I accept faults and components fail from time to time. My whole argument is the lack of  warning from the vehicle to the driver.

 

My question remains unanswered ‘ Why does Audi think it unnecessary to provide a ‘no charge’ indication?

 

You indicate that Audi UK have taken on board my comments and suggestions but the car is designed in Germany. Can you tell me if Markus Duesmann is still with the Group or has Gernot Dollner taken his place ?

Have my comments been sent to either of these two gentlemen?

 

From what I understand there maybe up to 50,000 vehicle in the UK which could suffer similar faults. If this is the case what is the Board of Management responsible for Technical Development and Product Lines in Audi AG doing about it, or going to do about it?

 

You tell me that even if I write to the Board of Management my communication will come back to Audi UK, because my vehicle is UK registered. However these faults are appearing in Audis all over the world which were designed in Germany. Until I have a positive response that Audi AG know about this and are taking positive action I consider that direct communication with Audi AG is the only way of obtaining straight answers.

 

Thank you for continuing to ask me what financial gesture would placate me, however that is secondary to obtaining a positive answer that AUDI AG are developing a fix which will be available within a reasonable timescale. In the meantime it would be appreciated if you could provide me with the email address for the PA of the person who now has Board responsibility.

 

[huw8000]

Very informative thread - this is clearly a significant (and growing) issue.  

I've recently purchased 21k miles C8 ('20 plate) and had to pull into a service station on Monday because the car was throwing various warning lights. RAC turned up and diagnosed the dreaded alternator failure. This would be the second one to be replaced on the car - it was also replaced in Jan '23 at ~15k miles...

The car is outside of the 3 year manufacturer warranty but has been sold with a 12-month 3rd party warranty. 

I'm curious whether the 7-year Extended Audi Warranty that is mentioned above is relevant for all cars or only those who chose to extend their manufacturer warranty? 

Either way - I won't be footing the bill but I would assume best to pursue via Audi given ultimately it is their part that has failed. 

Interested to hear people's thoughts.

[RSW]

Sorry to hear that huw800, glad you were able to get off the road before the 12v was fully depleted. Without knowing the terms of the 3rd party warranty hard to be definitive, be surprised if it isn’t covered as it’s a key component, no doubt they will clarify quickly enough. It should certainly be covered by the Audi 7 year warranty for the MHEV 48/12v system which as I understood it is simply an extension of the manufacturers warranty for that specific component set. Cally and Mark2 will be able to clarify as they have had to deal with this specific nightmare failure as you will have seen above. 

Are you taking the car to a local Audi dealer for the repair? That might be your best bet as while they will often try and push you back to the seller (if non Audi), the reality is this is failure of a manufacturer’s component that should be covered under the 7 year extended manufacturers warranty.  Even if the Audi service centre does wrangle with your third party warranty provider to begin with, ultimately you should be able to get them focused on addressing this by pulling on the Audi manufacturers extended warranty for the MHEV 48/12v. 

Also I wouldn’t hesitate to pursue the Audi UK route in line with the contacts Mark2 wrote to. 

Good luck, no way should you be paying for this absolutely appalling and dangerous defect. 
 

 

[Mark2]

I certainly agree that Audi should cover this under the 7 year warranty. Although I have taken out an extended warranty my repair, vehicle recovery and courtesy car were covered by Audi.

i do urge you to write to Audi UK to complain so we can keep the pressure up.

[huw8000]

Hi RSW - that's good to know that the extended manufacturers warranty should automatically cover it (provided that it is related to the MHEV 48/12v system). Albeit I'm sure Audi won't make it straightforward. 

Yes - all work has been carried out at main Audi dealers and I will keep it this way. I don't want to give any wriggle room. 

It's worth me adding that I'm also within 30 days of purchasing the car so I'm half minded to just give it back and get my money back from the vendor (independent garage). I'm going to do some digging and work out how painful this might be and then make a decision. I'm also conscious that the minute I do any work (even if remedial), then I probably forego the ability to give the car back under the CRA protections.

A few things to consider...who said buying a 20k miler would be easy... 

[RSW]

Good to hear huw8000 ref it being dealt with by an Audi dealer. Sadly they rarely make it easy because the warranty team at the dealer usually have a lot of hoops to get through with Audi group on claims, but you should get to the right outcome with the 7year cover if it is the MHEV alternator element. 

Think your 30 day point is certainly worthy of consideration, legally you have that protection, how easy the seller would make that is another matter of course, but definately one to consider. 

The fact that it’s been replaced before on your car goes to the heart of earlier discussions on this thread. 

They know it’s an issue hence 7 year warranty, but rather than ensure the fix that replaces the unit actually corrects the root cause, it appears to be like for like, so you reset the clock and hope. 

The least they could do is ensure a recall for a software release update which includes a 12v charge warning and instruction to find somewhere safe to pull over in order to give customers a chance to get to safety before full shut down.

Unfortunately they appear to be currently hiding behind the lack of any safety regs mandating the need to do that.  

Mark2 has been pursuing this - let’s hope they wake up and see common sense on what is actually a genuinely dangerous fault. 

Trouble is far too often these big companies lack common sense and customer orientation and fall back on their PR and legal teams regarding how to contain issue brand protection wise and do the minimum expense wise.

Good luck

[Mark2]

I am backing Audi into a corner as they are refusing to answer direct questions like  ‘what are you doing about this?’ . My latest response below-

Feranza,

I am sorry but you are ignoring my direct questions and giving me woolly answers which is unacceptable.

As this is a serious safety issue which can affect driver and passengers , acknowledged by you, it is not unreasonable to expect Audi design team to implement a design change. 

All I am asking is for confirmation that the design team will be undertaking this.

You clearly have direct access to the design team , as you have fed back my comments. Therefore you are able to ask them directly when they will be undertaking a fix.

You also have access directly to Herr Dollner and can ask him the same question.

Failing to provide such a simple answer could be construed as Audi having no interest in driver and passenger safety, which I am sure is not the case.

I await your positive response.

[Cally]

Mark, my case is also now with Feranza. On Good Friday she told me she was awaiting information from the dealership, so no 'proper' response as yet. I am currently back in the Alps and she did enquire as to whether we had made it!! As soon as I hear back, I will share her reply.

Huw, I am sorry to hear you are in the same boat. It took me some 4 weeks and an unreasonable amount of effort to get Audi to accept responsibility and repair my car under the 7 year warranty. I was 8,000 miles out of the manufacturers standard warranty.