Old ecu in new car

[Math8888]

I've got a new 2024 model a6 avant - it's one of the new totally locked down models - it can't be coded at all, no odb11, vcds, odis - nothing - it won't even accept an AI box. And has a speed nagging device fitted.

My question is if i replace the ecu with a 2023 ecu will this be able to be coded or is it not the ecu that controls these functions - if its not the ecu then what does control functions like, lane departure warning, speed nagging device, tail light animation and such like - any help would be appreciated 

[Optimus]

ECU is not necessarily the problem in your enquiry. The control modules that communicate with the ECU are coded with firmware that may be different to the MY23 ECU.

cloning ECU’s is possible, for example there are some aftermarket ECU manufacturers out there (Syvecs) who run their own ECU and firmware and clone the manufacturer’s firmware and port it into the system.

think of it like an Apple computer emulating windows operating system.

if you did any of this on a new vehicle your warranty would be automatically null in void. 

[jammy]

On 1/11/2024 at 10:16 AM, Math8888 said:

And has a speed nagging device fitted.

 

What’s a speed nagging device?

ive got a 2021 A6 and other then a speed limiter option it doesn’t flag up your speed when over the limit.

is this new to the 2024 models?

[Math8888]

Hi, when the roadsign camera recognition system pucks up a speed sign say 30mph if you go too 35mph it chimes like a seatbelt warning chime and it keeps chiming as long as your over the speed limit - you can turn it off but everytime the cars ignition is turned off it resets to on position - (all 24 cars are fitted with it as its new EU law and from 2025 you will not be able to turn it off)

[Math8888]

14 hours ago, Optimus said:

ECU is not necessarily the problem in your enquiry. The control modules that communicate with the ECU are coded with firmware that may be different to the MY23 ECU.

cloning ECU’s is possible, for example there are some aftermarket ECU manufacturers out there (Syvecs) who run their own ECU and firmware and clone the manufacturer’s firmware and port it into the system.

think of it like an Apple computer emulating windows operating system.

if you did any of this on a new vehicle your warranty would be automatically null in void. 

Hi, thanks for the info - if the company you mention does software for my car would this unlock all the modules so they could be coded - not for an engine remap but for things like lane departure, and speed sign recognition being able to turn off permanently 

[Optimus]

Syvecs specialist in engine management and transmission management software and firmware, including the hardware.

I'm not overly technical with such things but I understand the issues your describing are not the ECU but are control modules. As I understand, the control module responsible for cruise control that adjusts your speed and distance using radar will have some sort basic command prompts that will say:

IF transmission speed is at '   ' check radar position distance for '   ' adjust for tolerances at '  ' 

This is not necessarily done by the ECU and this could be multiple control units doing each part forming part of a system, however a lot of the data sourced is likely plucked from the ECU and transmission control unit module(s) for example like traction control etc etc. Remapping these by changing numbers or characteristics in how they perform could disable or enable certain elements in your requirements. word of warning it is simply not as easy as it sounds.

Speed governors were basic coding that retarded engine fuelling to inhibit the engine/transmission to go beyond a speed in which the sensor in the transmission provided in certain gears. Traditionally this was simple code or even done by detecting the throttle position (accelerator pedal position) that just told the ECU to do something, typically reduce throttle intake position from 100% to 70% opening position when sensor A, B or C recorded x, y or z. Very easy to simply recode this to function/command prompt.

A good example of early electronic limiters, I recall a colleague tried in his transit van which was limited to 60mph in 5th gear, however if he dropped it to 4th gear he could get 66mph. So you'd hear this thing rattling down the road on the red line just to get a mere 6mph. The particular speed governor was programmed to only consider restriction to speed when in 5th gear so the car could go over the speed limiter if it was in a lower gear. A lot of engines destroyed as a result of this when company employees realised this was possible.

As modern cars have become more sophisticated and computerised so has these governors and safety systems, there are now multiple and many different factors and control units communicating with each, it is not a simple case of picking one (ECU) and reprogramming it without causing issues else where.

Case and point, all VAG group cars when plugged into their respective diagnostic tools can now tell if the cars ECU has been accessed outside of the manufacturer's approved network. In some cases this has invalidated any warranty there and then if they can identify/prove that the car has been tampered or modified in any way.

Whether this is true, I was told they can also see how long/miles you have driven with a warning light (oil, EML etc) which can also effect any goodwill/warranty, that's how much these car computer systems are watching and recording information.

[Optimus]

have you also tried this.

 

[Math8888]

31 minutes ago, Optimus said:

have you also tried this.

 

Hi, thanks but that's the old type when you set a speed max and the car tells you when you go over it - the "nagging" device is camera and GPS based 

[jammy]

1 hour ago, Math8888 said:

Hi, when the roadsign camera recognition system pucks up a speed sign say 30mph if you go too 35mph it chimes like a seatbelt warning chime and it keeps chiming as long as your over the speed limit - you can turn it off but everytime the cars ignition is turned off it resets to on position - (all 24 cars are fitted with it as its new EU law and from 2025 you will not be able to turn it off)

That would be very annoying.

is it easily turned off every trip like lane assist on the end of the stalk?

I ask as I’m looking at a new A6 this year and I could cope with an easy button press every trip but not delving into the MMI menus.

[Math8888]

39 minutes ago, Optimus said:

Syvecs specialist in engine management and transmission management software and firmware, including the hardware.

I'm not overly technical with such things but I understand the issues your describing are not the ECU but are control modules. As I understand, the control module responsible for cruise control that adjusts your speed and distance using radar will have some sort basic command prompts that will say:

IF transmission speed is at '   ' check radar position distance for '   ' adjust for tolerances at '  ' 

This is not necessarily done by the ECU and this could be multiple control units doing each part forming part of a system, however a lot of the data sourced is likely plucked from the ECU and transmission control unit module(s) for example like traction control etc etc. Remapping these by changing numbers or characteristics in how they perform could disable or enable certain elements in your requirements. word of warning it is simply not as easy as it sounds.

Speed governors were basic coding that retarded engine fuelling to inhibit the engine/transmission to go beyond a speed in which the sensor in the transmission provided in certain gears. Traditionally this was simple code or even done by detecting the throttle position (accelerator pedal position) that just told the ECU to do something, typically reduce throttle intake position from 100% to 70% opening position when sensor A, B or C recorded x, y or z. Very easy to simply recode this to function/command prompt.

A good example of early electronic limiters, I recall a colleague tried in his transit van which was limited to 60mph in 5th gear, however if he dropped it to 4th gear he could get 66mph. So you'd hear this thing rattling down the road on the red line just to get a mere 6mph. The particular speed governor was programmed to only consider restriction to speed when in 5th gear so the car could go over the speed limiter if it was in a lower gear. A lot of engines destroyed as a result of this when company employees realised this was possible.

As modern cars have become more sophisticated and computerised so has these governors and safety systems, there are now multiple and many different factors and control units communicating with each, it is not a simple case of picking one (ECU) and reprogramming it without causing issues else where.

Case and point, all VAG group cars when plugged into their respective diagnostic tools can now tell if the cars ECU has been accessed outside of the manufacturer's approved network. In some cases this has invalidated any warranty there and then if they can identify/prove that the car has been tampered or modified in any way.

Whether this is true, I was told they can also see how long/miles you have driven with a warning light (oil, EML etc) which can also effect any goodwill/warranty, that's how much these car computer systems are watching and recording information.

Hi, thanks for that - it looks like I was barking up the wrong tree - maybe I just need to wait and see if someone manages to crack the new dsf2 encryption (think that's what it's called).  I think with the way cars are going now by forcing you to do things and so called safety systems that cannot be turned off there is going to be a healthy market for 2023 cars

[Math8888]

2 minutes ago, jammy said:

That would be very annoying.

is it easily turned off every trip like lane assist on the end of the stalk?

I ask as I’m looking at a new A6 this year and I could cope with an easy button press every trip but not delving into the MMI menus.

When I got the car I had to go through about 4 menu screens to turn it off - I then read a post giving instructions on how to make a shortcut button that appears on the aircon screen - so now at least its a single press button like the start/stop button - but it needs to be pressed everytime as it resets to on when the car is turned off and on - so when I get in the car I turn off the stop start turn off the "nagger" and disable lane keep assist - annoying if your just nipping to the shop.