Rear wheel bearing spline bolt

[Johnny Crowe]

😱Oh Dear! 
 

In my attempt to remove the rear wheel bearing I have rounded the spline insert of the bolt. Did use the correct tool (XZN 16) and usual scaffold pole on 3/ 4 breaker bar. If I had an assistant should have applied forward  pressure onto the bolt. Any suggestions how I can remove the offending splined bolt? Not that I possess a welder but if the xzn 16 splined tool was welded onto the bolt would that work? 
Thanks in anticipation Johnny

[Magnet]

Welcome Jonathan and sorry to hear of your plight. 
In my experience, the proper way to remove these is with a high powered air operated impact wrench. 
Obviously too late now, but I guess your suggestion would now be your best option, since I can’t see you being able to drill the head off that. 
Sounds as you say, it sounds like welding the spline socket onto the bolt head - at a garage equipped to do so, then asking them to try their impact wrench on it. 
I take it you were intending to replace the hub complete with bearing rather than trying to fit a new bearing into the old hub-? 
I think you will find the ABS sender is integral with the hub, so if you don’t replace the whole hub now, you will find yourself doing so again before the bearing wears out. 
Try pricing a Febi hub ( with bearing) at Parts in Motion at Exeter. 
Well worth assessing the condition of/replacing the back plate at the same time since these do get rusty.

Keep us posted on how you get on. 
Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s. Think the Febi hubs come with a new bolt. 

[cliffcoggin]

O dear indeed.

Welding a spline bit into the socket head is the only option I can think of, short of mounting the car onto a giant milling machine and cutting the bolt out with a carbide tool. The high temperature involved in welding may help break the thread loose.

[Johnny Crowe]

Thanks Gareth and Cliffcoggin for your prompt responses.

At least my welding suggestion may be plausible. Alternatively (as I do not possess a welder ) was to consider using a M17 spline hammered into the offending bolt to act as an extractor. 
I have to confess I merely only testing if I could loosen the bolt with a view to replacing the bearing as I am hearing a cacophony of sounds from the rear which could be bearing and / or suspension related. 
My problem is that I am too  inquisitive for my own good. Whenever I acquire any new vehicle I have to tamper / tinker with it for learning purposes. Like all members I derive satisfaction from repairing and overcoming the challenges of diagnosis. This however is sometimes to the detriment of my bank balance as I need to resort to the professionals for breaking something that probably didn’t need attention in the first instance.

 

 

 

[Magnet]

I understand your desire to want to try an M17 spline Johnny, but please don’t go there - you will regret it! 
I think you now have to resort to leaving those who are correctly equipped do this job. Long levers in their our right have already got you into trouble - please don’t compound it. Impact wrench is essential. 

[Rybrook]

Heat is your friend for this job, 

Just a question though, Did you have the hub knuckle on or off the car at the time?

With the knuckle on the ground held between the knees, also only using 750mm breaker bar (one hand forcing the socket into the bolt and the other levering the bar. With heat applied a bolt at a time (rapidlycoolingwith wd40) , you will find they aren't actually that tight.

70nm and 180° 

Edited September 5 by Rybrook
Spelling

[Johnny Crowe]

Hi Rybrook. Thanks for your interest. Hub knuckle was on car at the time. Your suggestion to use heat is valid however do not possess a blow torch ( yet) Have resorted to leaving car with a mechanic who sympathetically acknowledged my plight. He intends to weld the 16 mm spline socket to the offending bolt. 

[Rybrook]

No worries, with it being on the car I take you you have non quattro, the rear cv joint is the problem as to why I had to do it on the ground.

I had to swap heat sources to do mine, butane just isn't hot enough so swapping to mapp gas.

[Magnet]

Glad you are getting it sorted Jonathan. Perhaps you can update us when it’s been done, and let’s hope your noises disappear.
Are you having a new hub fitted, as opposed to fitting new bearings in your current hub? 
 

Hello Colwyn, 

Apologies for the contra opinion, but trying to remove this bolt with the hub knuckle off the car simply exaggerates the problem, since you then have to apply resistive forces to stop the knuckle moving about - sorry, doesn’t compute. 
I can’t say I’m a fan of applying heat either, but….

The answer is having the correct equipment to do the job - a high powered air operated impact wrench and a high quality appropriate ‘socket’. If you don’t have these, then things are likely to end up where Jonathan did ‘….sorry I started…’

Kind regards,

Gareth.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Rybrook]

3 hours ago, Magnet said:

Glad you are getting it sorted Jonathan. Perhaps you can update us when it’s been done, and let’s hope your noises disappear.
Are you having a new hub fitted, as opposed to fitting new bearings in your current hub? 
 

Hello Colwyn, 

Apologies for the contra opinion, but trying to remove this bolt with the hub knuckle off the car simply exaggerates the problem, since you then have to apply resistive forces to stop the knuckle moving about - sorry, doesn’t compute. 
I can’t say I’m a fan of applying heat either, but….

The answer is having the correct equipment to do the job - a high powered air operated impact wrench and a high quality appropriate ‘socket’. If you don’t have these, then things are likely to end up where Jonathan did ‘….sorry I started…’

Kind regards,

Gareth.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

I agree, I did it that way so I could pass the mot with the rear offside bearing/abs sensor.

I  did however use my cordless snap on impact on the near side hub when I realised how easily the bolts came out with heat.

But not everyone has access to air tools.

[Magnet]

As said, it’s not a job to entertain if you don’t have the right tools - as Jonathan’s experience demonstrates. 

[Johnny Crowe]

Pleased to report that offending hub bolt was removed by welding a nut and released with an extended 3/4 breaker bar. O S rear wheel bearing was worn however this was only detected when removed from the hub carrier. Mechanic suggested this may have been caused by the hub bolt having been over tightened in the first instance. The mechanic also referred to similar problems rounding the head when removing but not when tightening the M 16 hub bolts. Thanks to all who contributed. No doubt I will be enquiring again on a different topic at some point in the future D.V. Johnny

[Magnet]

Many thanks Jonathan, 

Can we take it you are renewing the hub assembly rather than putting a new bearing in the existing hub? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Johnny Crowe]

Hi Gareth

Replaced bearing on existing hub.

What would constitute the need to renew the hub assembly?

[Magnet]

Bit late now Jonathan, but I believe your hub also contains the built-in sender for the ABS sensor to sense - hence likely to need to renew the hub (and bearing) before the bearing wears out.

As I understood it (well with my earlier one) the difference in price between a new hub with bearing was not that much more than buying a bearing. 
What make did you go with after and where did you buy it? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Rybrook]

4 minutes ago, Magnet said:

Bit late now Jonathan, but I believe your hub also contains the built-in sender for the ABS sensor to sense - hence likely to need to renew the hub (and bearing) before the bearing wears out.

As I understood it (well with my earlier one) the difference in price between a new hub with bearing was not that much more than buying a bearing. 
What make did you go with after and where did you buy it? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

The abs sensor is bolt in, there is a Magnet in the bearing face.

[Johnny Crowe]

Hi Gareth. Thanks for clarifying. I resorted to a mechanic as he was required to weld a bolt onto the splined M16 to enable removal. Not sure what make he purchased. Charged around £40 for the part which would suggest less than superior quality. Car is quieter when driving. I am tempted to replace the N/S with the advice offered as  there is a similar noise emanating on the left side. Any recommendations for where or what part to purchase is welcomed. Johnny 

[Magnet]

Understand Johnny,

I favour Febi, and tend to buy ( mail order) from Parts in Motion at Exeter.

Worth trying their website, but they frequently list on eBay as well, so you could also check there. There will be other eBay sellers you can then compare prices with. 
Kind regards,

Gareth.