Timer Belt Failure at 54k miles

[PaulSom]

Hello All,

I have owned a 2018 Q2 from new. Originally, I was due to cover 27k miles per annum for my work. I changed jobs during the pandemic and worked more locally. My annual mileage dropped to 5k.

last week my Q2’s timing belt failed- on a busy 60mph road. My recovery service took the car to my motor technician- he is Audi/Merc/BMW/VW etc accredited and has serviced my car since I bought it. He used to service my Q5 too. He was amazed to discover that the timing belt had snapped. 

The engineer told me to contact Audi Customer Services as their guidance is 140k life cycle for the timing belt.

I have spoken with Audi and even raised my case with their new UK Managing Director. 

Audi tell me that they have no liability and it is therefore on me to get the car fixed and pay for any damage. This is likely to be expensive and at least £3k.

i had suggested to Audi that they need to look at the car to diagnose any learning points relating to quality failures in production. I have noted on here another 2018 Q2 that had a premature timing belt failure. I pointed out that if I’d carried on with my original mileage, I’d have hit the current mileage in year 2 of ownership and it’s likely the timing belt would have failed then. 

I’m not getting anywhere with Audi though. They don’t appear concerned at all at this failure in a supposedly premium brand car. I’ve done 100k+ miles in a Honda CRV and not had a timing belt failure.

Can anyone help?
 

 

[Steve Q]

You could contact the motoring ombudsman but this is a slow process. The car is 6 years old, the old schedule used to be to change the belt at 5 years. Which is probably why Audi aren't interested. 

[PaulSom]

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply. As the part’s wear and tear is more a function of use rather than time (ie. miles driven) I would have thought Audi would be keen to learn of a quality threat to their brand. Especially as my car has been regularly serviced and generally well kept. The failure has made me consider whether the value for money for premium price and supposed quality (reliability) is really in balance. I will have a go at using the Motor Ombudsman for mediation. If Audi remain uninterested then it probably demonstrates what they think in terms of ownership loyalty.

[Magnet]

Hello Paul,

I’m very sorry to hear you have encountered this totally unacceptable failure, but I feel you are into the battlefield in respect of getting contributions from Audi. It will require a great deal of support from your best pal Percy Verance, and as Steve say, the battle is likely to be protracted, but you have to keep at it. 
Perhaps you could let us know:- 

How many (main dealer?) services the car has had from new and at what mileages? 

Are most of your journeys short.

Do you isolate the stop/start, or do you just leave it to operate? 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Steve Q]

Truthfully Audi have never cared about customer service. My A6 turbo 1 day out a warranty and Audi would only Psy half. That was 22 years ago! As my Audi has been owned by my dad then me. 

Also Audi has the worst parts retention for older cars than any other German brand. 

They did away with the time scale on cambelts which non of us here could understand as rubber deteriorates. 

[PaulSom]

Hi Gareth, I had my Q2 serviced at least annually from new. I used a qualified independent. He is highly experienced covering all VW Group, Mercedes and even premier brand like Porsche and Ferrari. He only uses official Audi parts too. As soon as the car indicated ‘service due’ and/or it was MOT time, I would book it in. 
 

initially, my journeys were long, 150 mile round trips for work, 3 to 4 days a week. Since 2020, the mileage dropped significantly with shorter journeys.

I left start/stop on auto- always. I didn’t pick up any guidance to use this sparingly. 
 

My dealership (Yeovil Audi) encouraged me today to speak again with Audi Customer Services and see if they will liaise with my motor technician.

At the moment the car is off road and my engineer has told me once he does any work on the cam belt repair, then it’s curtains for any Audi goodwill. 

I shall keep you updated. 
 

 

[Magnet]

Many thanks for the additional information Paul.

If you expect (and plan for) Audi using any means of getting under a snakes belly with a top hat on, in an attempt to avoid paying any contribution, you won’t be disappointed.

Based on the above, I’ve attempted to summarise as follows - warts and all -  some of this results in more questions, but:- 

You bought the car new from Audi Yeovil, but they haven’t subsequently seen the car for regular servicing. 
You have used an independent to service the car, even during its 3 year warranty period. 
That independent has only used genuine Audi service parts, and only oils that can be proved to meet Audi specification -? 
Has the independent registered these services on Audi’s computer service record?

If not, do you have itemised copies of all services carried out? 
When was it last serviced and at what mileage, and when did the cambelt fail in relation to both service mileage and date? 
Can you confirm the independent is VAT registered? 
Have your dealings with Audi Customer Services been recorded in writing? 
 

A detached viewpoint:- Due to the car having covered only short trip mileages over the last couple of years, coupled with the fact that the S/S has always been deployed, this belt has had a hammering over its short journeys and regular s/s restarts, compared with if it had been used for regular long distance use. 
Having said that, it should have been capable of withstanding this use.

I hope all of this doesn’t present too gloomy a picture, but as I see it, you have lost valuable browny points by not having a ‘genuine’ Audi servicing history. 
I think your mechanic is absolutely right in not touching it at the moment, but you have to consider how long it’s likely to take you to reach a situation of receiving any contribution from Audi, while the vehicle remains dormant. 
I genuinely wish you good luck with this since it should not have happened.

Perhaps you could come back to us Paul with the answers to the above. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[PaulSom]

Hi Gareth,

Yeovil Audi did the first two services and fixed a failed MMI Unit (this blew on a trip 7 months from new). 
I switched to the independent as I wasn’t happy with their approach to servicing and the hourly rates. 
The independent has added all my services to the Audi System. All parts, oils etc are as per Audi specifications. He is VAT registered. 
I have used email recordings all all dealings with Customer Services and Audi Executive Office since their initial rebuttal. 
I have also extended my communications to Audi’s MD in Germany. His PA called me today. Lots of empathy and they have made contact with the UK side. A further member of the UK exec team is now reviewing my case. I made a recommendation for their Poole Audi dealership to liaise with my engineer. She said she will consider this, review all my notes and the case in general. She will also speak with their senior motor technician (which suggests that none of the Customer Service Team bothered to do so). I got the impression that the some of the Audi people I spoke with didn’t even know what a timer belt is- never mind its lifecycle. 
 

The latest is, the new exec will contact me again tomorrow with her outcome. The German MD is keen to check on where my Q2 was produced and ensure the issue isn’t systemic. 
update to follow when I hear more.

[Magnet]

Without wishing to be patronising, well done you. It seems you have done everything you can ‘to the book’, thus reducing Audi’s wiggle room. You obviously see the importance of a structured approach - quite a few don’t! 
Perhaps you could keep us posted Paul, since I think everyone on here would be very sympathetic to your valid claim. 
You certainly seem to be tuned into doing this correctly, and doubt if you need the forum’s advice, but please let us know if we can help further at any stage. 
Good luck and kind regards,

Gareth. 

[PaulSom]

Thanks Gareth. It’s reassuring to know that I haven’t missed any key angles on how to proceed. I shall post again when I get the outcome decision. 

[Magnet]

Thanks Paul,

Homework and evidence presenting is key to how these things pan out. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Magnet]

Wondered how you are progressing with this Paul.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[PaulSom]

Hi Gareth, thanks for following up. Nothing positive to add I’m afraid.
 

To recap, I tried to reason with Audi Customer Services, Audi Executive Office (their UK managing director Jose Miguel Aparicio  pretended to have read my case but delegated it to his minions); Audi International in Germany- right up to their CEO, Gernod Doellner. Plus the Yeovil Audi dealership managing director Dylan Fennell where I bought my last two cars including this ‘premium’ vehicle.

At each juncture, all I received was, a “sorry nothing we can do”. Some attempt at empathy from the CEO in Germany and his assistant. They asked Audi UK to review my case, but to no avail. 

Deadlock email response now received from Audi Uk Executive Office. They would offer 10% off labour and 5% off parts.

I would have to pay to get the car to them and they would charge £130 an hour versus an equal (possibly more experienced) engineer rate of £65 per hour.

Having now lost trust in Audi, how would I know whether they just add the odd half hour here or there to get back the so called 10% discount?
 

Even if this paltry offer was in good faith, it would shave a few hundred pounds off a bill likely to be between £3k to £5k. 
 

I do wonder how they justify a £130 hourly rate for service and repairs versus the often better trained and more experienced competition. 
 

Are we all paying for their expensive show rooms through disproportionate overheads applied to their maintenance labour?

I have started a Motor Ombudsman case. I shall also pursue a legal action in addition. 

For Everyone on this forum, please use my experience as a warning.
 

Do not expect Audi UK or International to uphold what we should all expect from a so called premium car brand when you experience a major issue with your Audi vehicle.
 

My car was well driven, regularly serviced, never had an accident nor a collision of any kind. Hardly a scratch on the bodywork. I did everything reasonable to look after a premium priced car from new. 
 

But its essential timing belt failed at just 54,700 miles! This would be shocking for much less expensive cars.
 

Audi are not even embarrassed by this despite their engineers stating that they should not fail before 140,000 miles. No different from a premier house becoming uninhabitable during your 25 year mortgage term. 

They are not at all interested in learning from this case and checking if they have a quality issue that could be systemic. This is not what we should expect from a premium car brand. 
 

The Audi Customer Services staff are trained to offer mock empathy and guide customers away from goodwill or compensation when their expensive Audi cars fail. 
 

I’ve read that they even try this when parts should be covered under warranty.

Given VW Groups recent 45% fall in operating profits and more diesel emissions claims to come and the stain on their brand from bad practices in motor finance now to be compensated plus the low up take in EV sales, I sense that Audi and the rest of this group will face decline and a consumer shift to more trusted brands. 
 

Time for Audi to step away and let Kia, Hyundai, even Suzuki to replace them. I don’t think they can stem the tide of competition and their culture is broken. 
 

 

 

 

Edited November 3 by PaulSom

[PaulSom]

On 10/16/2024 at 12:04 PM, Magnet said:

Thanks Paul,

Homework and evidence presenting is key to how these things pan out. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Gareth, they had umpteen presentations of evidence. All set out clearly to all levels of customer support from CEO International down to the dealership level and all customer facing levels of Audi UK. 
 

For reasons of their own, they refused any reasonable support for my premature failed timing belt. 
 

I can only conclude that nothing I could do to support my reasonable and rational contact with them would result in Audi UK doing the right thing and protecting their brand in recognising a bad quality failure on their part. 
 

This case should make anyone contemplating an Audi purchase highly cautious over whether they will receive the expected vehicle quality in return for the price they are to be charged for an Audi car. 
 

Audi car buyers beware. 

Edited November 3 by PaulSom

[Steve Q]

Sorry to hear this Paul, it's terrible customer service. I think most manufacturers don't care about there customers if I'm honest. I know ford and vauxhall already the same from personal experience. 

[cliffcoggin]

Paul.

Your experience demonstrates the drop in quality standards at Audi that has become evident to many of us at the forum over the past few years. Whether this is the result of the diesel emissions scandal or just the routine interference of the bean counters I do not know.

Do you know if the belt that failed prematurely was wet or dry? Wet belts have become popular amongst manufacturers recently, but they do seem to fail unpredictably, unlike the older dry belts.

[Magnet]

Hello Paul,

I too just cannot understand the thinking on this, other than ‘ It’s out of warranty - tough!’ , and can well understand your dissatisfaction with the outcome, since it seems you have presented your case in text book fashion. 
I believe there is a definite underlying item defect within the cambelt and associated assembly, and I bet that cause could be established on strip down, but….

We certainly all share your disappointment, and please excuse me using your misfortune as advice to other owners :- 

DO NOT ABIDE BY VAG’s RECOMMENDATION THAT CAMBELT CHANGES ARE NOT NECESSARY ON A TIMED BASIS (previously 5 years).

IF YOU DO, YOU DO,SO AT YOUR PERRIL. 

Sorry to ask more questions Paul, but I wonder what your intentions are for this once-valuable vehicle? 
Wishing you good luck with whatever you decide to do. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

[PaulSom]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:39 AM, Steve Q said:

Sorry to hear this Paul, it's terrible customer service. I think most manufacturers don't care about there customers if I'm honest. I know ford and vauxhall already the same from personal experience. 

Hi Steve, my mechanic tell that Mercedes provided a goodwill payment (no questions asked) towards one of his customers whose timer-belt failed on a 2003 registered car. Always serviced by my guy and not the Mercedes network. An indication of a true premium brand versus Audi and the wider VW Group.
 

Perhaps Ford & Vauxhall have joined Audi in suffering from big write-offs for investments in EVs with low take up.

Emissions claims also catching up to VW Group’s first in line settlements. 

[PaulSom]

On 11/4/2024 at 5:31 PM, Magnet said:

Hello Paul,

I too just cannot understand the thinking on this, other than ‘ It’s out of warranty - tough!’ , and can well understand your dissatisfaction with the outcome, since it seems you have presented your case in text book fashion. 
I believe there is a definite underlying item defect within the cambelt and associated assembly, and I bet that cause could be established on strip down, but….

We certainly all share your disappointment, and please excuse me using your misfortune as advice to other owners :- 

DO NOT ABIDE BY VAG’s RECOMMENDATION THAT CAMBELT CHANGES ARE NOT NECESSARY ON A TIMED BASIS (previously 5 years).

IF YOU DO, YOU DO,SO AT YOUR PERRIL. 

Sorry to ask more questions Paul, but I wonder what your intentions are for this once-valuable vehicle? 
Wishing you good luck with whatever you decide to do. 
Kind regards,

Gareth. 

 

Hi Gareth,

Please do use my case for warnings across this forum.

The German reputation for sound engineering was hard earned and well deserved for most of my lifetime. 
 

Some dark forces took hold across VW Group with the software cheating on emissions. Not as deadly as cheating fire safety on ACM panels on blocks of flats, but still shows a rotten culture. 
 

This culture has most likely descended throughout the group and infected the production quality of Audi. 
 

The VW Group’s financial issues reflect their loss of market share and mistiming and abject failure to get the right price point for EVs. 
 

Audi and even VW Group may head the same way as Saab.

Several of the Audi UK Customer Services staff I dealt with didn’t even know what the timer/cam belt was or did. 
 

However, they all had the same scrip to follow in their dealings with me. Their training is based on demonstrating empathy. But it’s basically false and just a poor attempt to seem friendly and professional when they have ‘difficult customers’.

 

I’ve made a subject access request under the GDPR and Data Protection Act. I’ll shall find out what they have been saying about me and my case within across Audi. This will cost them a few thousand pounds of management time too. 
 

I have also reported the case to their independent whistleblower department in Germany and advised Audi that as a manufacturer they have duties of care relating to taking all steps necessary to check on the safety of components- especially if there is systemic issue that could impact on road safety. 
 

Component efficacy is also an issue of merchantable quality under The Sales of Goods Act. 
 

I will be applying a legal claim against Yeovil Audi in the first instance as a breach of this level of expected quality inherent in how they market their cars. They can then enjoin Audi UK as required. 
 

When I know the extend of the engine damage I’ll make the call on whether to sell as a non-runner or do the repairs. 
 

I’m looking out for another car too. Certainly not an Audi nor VW!
 

 

 

[cliffcoggin]

1 hour ago, PaulSom said:

Hi Steve, my mechanic tell that Mercedes provided a goodwill payment (no questions asked) towards one of his customers whose timer-belt failed on a 2003 registered car. Always serviced by my guy and not the Mercedes network. An indication of a true premium brand versus Audi and the wider VW Group.

Paul.

Don't be too lavish with praise for Mercedes. It has joined the club of manufacturers throwing their customers under a bus.

By the way, it is a timing belt, not a timer belt.

[PaulSom]

13 hours ago, cliffcoggin said:

Paul.

Don't be too lavish with praise for Mercedes. It has joined the club of manufacturers throwing their customers under a bus.

By the way, it is a timing belt, not a timer belt.

Hi Cliff, there is probably a wider malaise at large with the once proud, premium brand manufacturers. 

Strikes at VW production plants announced last week and this latest news concerning Audi’s large plant in Brussels. 
 

https://stocks.apple.com/As_pt4qI9TxmJmYFcMZKKzQ

[coupe4]

hi paul,sorry to hear about your situation and hope you get satisfaction at some stage of this whole process,i just want to commend you on the way youve gone about this from the start and you certainly deserve better treatment from audi/vw group.

if its any consolation its the very same here in ireland with the way they treat customers,the brand name has really gone down the pan in the last few years.i wish you the best of luck and hopefully all the effort you put into this will pay off eventually.Greg