Emission update problem - lose of power

[Ali H]

Hi!!

I took my A1 for its emissions update a week ago and it's lost power and is flat, it's now struggling with hills. I've nearly stalled it numerous times. I took it back to Audi Newcastle yesterday and surprise surprise there is nothing wrong with my car! 

They told me I wouldn't notice any difference in performance but it is very noticeable, they also said there have not been any complaints reported which I do not believe. This is not the car I bought and now regret taking it. Has anyone else experienced this??? 

Thanks in advance 

 

[Trevor]

Hi Alison...welcome to the Forum

We're hearing more stories like this every day...it seems the recall for rectification following the emissions scandal has opened a can of worms.

The general advise is don't take it in for the recall but unfortunately, it is too late for you and many others.

Lets hope they do a recall to rectify the poor running following this recall

Cheers  Trevor

[Ali H]

Hi Trevor,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have the number for the head emissions department so I'm going to phone them tomorrow. I know I've got no chance of them admitting they have modified my car but I have to pursue it. So disappointed in audi 

regards

alison 

 

[Magnet]

Hello Alison,

Sorry to hear of your problems. As Trevor points out, this does not appear to be untypical after this recall, and I would think there isn't any doubt that the car is no longer what it was in terms of its performance - and I would anticipate, it's economy. Re, on one else has complained!? -well there are a couple on on this forum as I recall, and if it were mine I think I would be scanning the VW and Skoda forums and listing those who are discontent. Might be an idea to do this before ringing your contact.

I fear you may not get very far with this, but this may be rather pessimistic and let's hope I'm wrong, and you can get the sense you deserve.

If I'm right, it would be interesting to ask the question of simply returning the car's performance to what it originally was, and pointing out that if the car had been taken to the dealer for routine servicing and had been returned with a decreased performance then you would expect them to rectify whatever the fault was - reasonable question I think.

Final positive point - if all else fails, would it be possible to have the car mapped back to its original performance? Not my field, but perhaps Trevor and others could comment on this possibility.

Perhaps you could let us know how things pan out.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Ali H]

Hi Gareth, 

thanks for you reply. I asked on Monday if the update could be reversed and was told it couldn't be.

One of the mechanics took it out for a test drive which I didn't see the point of doing as they couldn't compare to what it was like before! Surprise surprise nothing wrong! It was plugged into their diagnostics and no faults found. I said I wanted everything documented and they contacted Audi tech. 

I received a very long email basically saying my car is performing as expected and I agreed to the update and therefore I have not got a right to complain. They also highlighted that there have been no other complaints about the update.

I swapped a lovely Golf GTD for this car which no longer goes uphill without my foot to the floor! 

I am ringing the emissions department tomorrow. If I had test drove this car as it is now I wouldn't of bought it

i will update!! 

regards

alison 

 

[Magnet]

Hello Alison,

Many thanks for keeping this forum updated on the situation. I'm sorry that my pessimistic view on the outcome proved to be realistic, and I must say, I sympathise with you and the fact that you now have a car which now performs unacceptably- to a point where you would not buy it following a test run, and indeed they would be unlikely to sell to anyone else for the same reason.

I must say I "like" the bit that you agreed to allow them to modify this car, so you cannot complain about the resultant performance! Funny, if it was not so serious. 

Where now?

Not reversible back to its performance before they modified it? I would want this in writing from the dealer principal following his consultation with Audi, and I would be setting a time limit of 7 days to receive this. If you do not receive it, then if it were me, I would be into the maximimum publicity mode via. as many of the media contacts you can find for such things - giving the Audi dealer/Audi the courtesy of informing them first. 

To me, this treatment is just not acceptable, particularly since the intial issue was VAG's organisation fault. You should not be left holding the baby without any form of redress. 

Good luck Alison - but I hope you don't need it.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Trevor]

This post certainly raises some interesting points...one of which is can it be reversed or what are the implications of doing such a procedure.

I think VW Audi had their hand forced with this update after the emissions scandal. As a result of this, I think they may be receiving so much bad press from the initial faux pas to the resulting upgrade farce and will, therefore, be forced to release another update in the future to rectify the previous update. Maybe more of a reason to take the car back to them for a service with a 'stealth' upgrade possibly?

As Magnet mentioned in his previous post, a remap would definitely be the way to rectify the lack of performance but I would probably leave this for a while and see what the dealers offer. 

Going to be plenty of money made by the remapping companies to rectify all the under-performing Audi's.

[PaulFurlong]

With regards to this topic, my wife got a recall letter about 8 months ago regarding her 2010 2.0TDI TT, stating that it was affected with the said scandal and that she would be contacted with regards to taking her car for the emissions update.

We have received one letter since, about 3 months ago stating that they hadn't forgotten about the car and we would be contacted soon.

After reading the many posts on here with regards to problems/issues Audi owners have been experiencing after the so-called "it wont affect anything update", does anybody know what the legal stance is on refusing the said update because all it seems like to me is problems and ridiculous excuses.

Regards

Paul     

[Magnet]

Good question Paul, and one which I cannot answer in terms of the legal position re. refusing the "update", but if it were mine then refuse it I would.

What I would say is that the car is out of warranty - so no adverse implications there. It's your car, and it could be argued that it's up to you what you do with it - not VAG. All in all, this would at least seem to be a reasonable approach. Legal implications of that decision?? 

Perhaps it's me, by I'm not sure I fully understand the full logic of VAG actions on this, but am I right in believing that they "adjusted" the car's emission's system so that the car would satisfy the agreed requirements, and indeed a conventional MOT test? - and that is an important consideration. 

If I have a 3 year old or older car, and the car has not been actioned on the recall, can it take it it will pass because the "original fiddle arrangement " is still in place? If I present it for the recall, then is it more likely?? to satisfy the emissions requirements with the adjustment carried out and the "fiddle" removed? Main question:- If I don't take it for the recall, will it still satisfy the requirements in its original "fiddled" form - or will VOSA be amending the emission requirements and it will fail if not presented for the recall?

No doubt others on here will have the necessary knowledge and experience to answer these queries. 

I guess it boils down to all owners will be happy to take their cars in for a free recall, if the original performance and economy can be guaranteed. If it cannot, then obviously owners are going to be reluctant to have them recalled. 

Needs quite a few coats of thinking about!

Kind regards,

Gareth.

p.s. Trevor and/or others:- can I suggest that this important topic is not well placed on the forum ( tucked at the bottom of the list). Not being critical of the good works, but just feel this should be near the top of the heading selection. Any possibility Trevor? 

[Ali H]

Hi 

I have spoken to the emissions department who were helpful and have told me what they should of done to my car. I now am waiting for someone at Audi Newcastle to get back to me to confirm this is what actually has been done (my paperwork doesn't suggest this but I'm obviously not a mechanic). The emissions department have also raised a case for me and I will be contacted by a senior manager. I'm not letting this go until I have answers, I wish I had left well alone and not had this update done. 

Regards to everyone who have kept my determined to follow this through!

alison 

 

 

18 hours ago, Magnet said:

Hello Alison,

Sorry to hear of your problems. As Trevor points out, this does not appear to be untypical after this recall, and I would think there isn't any doubt that the car is no longer what it was in terms of its performance - and I would anticipate, it's economy. Re, on one else has complained!? -well there are a couple on on this forum as I recall, and if it were mine I think I would be scanning the VW and Skoda forums and listing those who are discontent. Might be an idea to do this before ringing your contact.

I fear you may not get very far with this, but this may be rather pessimistic and let's hope I'm wrong, and you can get the sense you deserve.

If I'm right, it would be interesting to ask the question of simply returning the car's performance to what it originally was, and pointing out that if the car had been taken to the dealer for routine servicing and had been returned with a decreased performance then you would expect them to rectify whatever the fault was - reasonable question I think.

Final positive point - if all else fails, would it be possible to have the car mapped back to its original performance? Not my field, but perhaps Trevor and others could comment on this possibility.

Perhaps you could let us know how things pan out.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

 

[Peter M]

Yes. 

A few days after the update, also a A1 it suddenly entered limp mode on the motorway. No power whatsoever. 

The car has always been serviced at Audi dealerships, and is only driven on distances, minimum of 40 miles. No school runs etc.  

Dealership found egr cooler failure. 

Eventually the dealership admitted to me that the update is causing problems. 

The car is still in the garage under repair. I cannot see it ever being right. 

To anyone reading- DO NOT GET THE EMISSIONS UPDATE. 

 

Allison do you have the number for the emissions department, as I'm going to file a complaint with Audi U.K. And could to with getting straight to them.

 

Peter. 

[Ali H]

32 minutes ago, Peter M said:

Yes. 

A few days after the update, also a A1 it suddenly entered limp mode on the motorway. No power whatsoever. 

The car has always been serviced at Audi dealerships, and is only driven on distances, minimum of 40 miles. No school runs etc.  

Dealership found egr cooler failure. 

Eventually the dealership admitted to me that the update is causing problems. 

The car is still in the garage under repair. I cannot see it ever being right. 

To anyone reading- DO NOT GET THE EMISSIONS UPDATE. 

 

Allison do you have the number for the emissions department, as I'm going to file a complaint with Audi U.K. And could to with getting straight to them.

 

Peter. 

Hi

the direct number is 0800 093 0124. They won't take any responsibility, I'm still waiting for a senior manager to get back to me (3 weeks now). I am going to chase them on Thursday. All they say is the update has been done properly and doesn't affect the cars performance. Very frustrating 

i hope you get an answer 

bw 

alison 

 

 

 

 

 

I have spoken to the emissions department who were helpful and have told me what they should of done to my car. I now am waiting for someone at Audi Newcastle to get back to me to confirm this is what actually has been done (my paperwork doesn't suggest this but I'm obviously not a mechanic). The emissions department have also raised a case for me and I will be contacted by a senior manager. I'm not letting this go until I have answers, I wish I had left well alone and not had this update done. 

Regards to everyone who have kept my determined to follow this through!

alison 

 

Hi Gareth, 

thanks for you reply. I asked on Monday if the update could be reversed and was told it couldn't be.

One of the mechanics took it out for a test drive which I didn't see the point of doing as they couldn't compare to what it was like before! Surprise surprise nothing wrong! It was plugged into their diagnostics and no faults found. I said I wanted everything documented and they contacted Audi tech. 

I received a very long email basically saying my car is performing as expected and I agreed to the update and therefore I have not got a right to complain. They also highlighted that there have been no other complaints about the update.

I swapped a lovely Golf GTD for this car which no longer goes uphill without my foot to the floor! 

I am ringing the emissions department tomorrow. If I had test drove this car as it is now I wouldn't of bought it

i will update!! 

regards

alison 

On 1 March 2017 at 7:18 PM, Magnet said:

Hello Alison,

Sorry to hear of your problems. As Trevor points out, this does not appear to be untypical after this recall, and I would think there isn't any doubt that the car is no longer what it was in terms of its performance - and I would anticipate, it's economy. Re, on one else has complained!? -well there are a couple on on this forum as I recall, and if it were mine I think I would be scanning the VW and Skoda forums and listing those who are discontent. Might be an idea to do this before ringing your contact.

I fear you may not get very far with this, but this may be rather pessimistic and let's hope I'm wrong, and you can get the sense you deserve.

If I'm right, it would be interesting to ask the question of simply returning the car's performance to what it originally was, and pointing out that if the car had been taken to the dealer for routine servicing and had been returned with a decreased performance then you would expect them to rectify whatever the fault was - reasonable question I think.

Final positive point - if all else fails, would it be possible to have the car mapped back to its original performance? Not my field, but perhaps Trevor and others could comment on this possibility.

Perhaps you could let us know how things pan out.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

 

[Magnet]

Maybe considered rather OTT, but with a reasonable period of time already given to sort this out, and the evidence of the frequency in general discontent with these upgrades, I might just think about taking the resolution to the small claims court. Of course, it might not be a small claim, since one could argue that they have rendered your car/s unusable (safely) and as such the claim would be for reimbursement of the market value of the car, or the cost to get it independently repaired/returned to its previous serviceable condition. 

Whether this claim is made against VAG or the dealer who carried out the update ( the dealer I guess) is open to debate. VAG have understandably already been subjected to criticism over the whole issue - which has resulted in the need for these so called updates. To my mind, it is now time for some publicity in respect of round 2 citing such cases as yours where these updates cause issues which were not present before.

Have you considered taking this to the national press or consumer programmes such as Watchdog? 

Good luck with getting getting this sorted, although it should not depend on luck.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[MDM]

I would just like to add my experience for others to be aware.

my Audi A3 1.6 was always serviced and had no problems and had just had a MOT 

had the EA189 modification done by Audi dealer as I didn't know I could refuse. Oh I wish I knew that I could have

not only did they tell me my MOT was due but a list of things to do but didn't really need doing. It didn't really drive as well home but expected some changes but not the light to come on and go into limp mode. 

Has needed work done on the engine and back in today as it still isn't driving without shuddering and the fan comes on?

I have sent an email to Audi but don't expect any joy and Cardiff Audi well still waiting for their call back

[Steve Q]

I am very surprised that they didn't tell you you could refuse. When I worked for a vw service department I always told customers they could refuse. 

Hace they said the egr needs replacing or what have they said is wrong? 

[MDM]

No just kept having letters before my time ran out.

and yes had to have a new fuel injector and now another one going even garage asked had I used the fuel in the car

 

[Kathryn]

Hi All

I bought my A3 6 months ago, a car I had admired for years and i was so excited to finally get one.  6 weeks ago it went for its emissions fix. At the weekend it went into LHM on the motorway. The AA diagnosed an EGR failure. I have called AUDI and my car is going in to be looked at in 2wks. They said if it is related to the emissions fix they will replace. I am really worried in case they come back and say it is nothing to do with the fix and I am landed with a hefty bill. I have also noticed that it seems like a fan is running after I turn the engine off, this is something that never happened before.

I have spoken to an Audi Specialist garage who said they are unable get hold of EGR Valves as they are all going to Audi. If I have to pay for this myself I can't even go to an Audi Specialist to save a bit of cash, putting approx 300 on the bill.

I wondered if anyone had any tips on how I can argue the point if Audi do say it's not related to the fix? I dont know anything about engines so im feeling a bit helpless. 

I didn't realise it was a voluntary fix, I wish I hadn't bothered!

Thanks

[Magnet]

Hello Kathryn,

Very sorry to hear if your problems. I will return to try to offer some comment in a moment. 

Meanwhile.

To Administrators:- 

I'm sure this topic is of the vital importance to many Audi owners at this time, yet the topic is relegated to near the bottom of the forum listing. 

My personal view is that it should be near "top of the shop", and ideally boldly prefixed with something like "Please read before subjecting your car to an emissions recall". Appreciating that this forum cannot/should not? offer specific advice on whether to or not, but I feel it would be useful for owners faced with this to have prominent access to the exoeriences of others before making their own decision whether to submit it or not. I'm sure whatever bum-covering wording that may be necessary, can be decided. 

Hopefully this will be taken as constructive (criticism) with the aim of suggested modifications assisting Audi owners with this issue.

To Kathryn,

Sorry Kathryn, I did say I would come back to you! 

You will be able to judge by the experiences of others who have posted on here whether your issue turns out to be in line with others. If unfortunately so, my recommendation would be to ensure that everything that happens from here is done/confirmed in writing - E-mails would be fine - and even e-mail them back with your interpretation of any telephone conversations you have with anyone. 

OK, so worse possible senario is you will have to pay for whatever work they consider necessary to return the car to the serviceable condition it was in before they carried out this recall. If you do, ensure you inform them in writing that you are doing so under protest and believe whatever is wrong is as a result of the work you had done at the recall. I would not have this work done anywhere other than at the dealer would carried out the recall. 

When all is fixed, I would  inform them that you intend to apply to the Small Claims Court to recover all monies paid to them ( plus  any out of pocket expenses) unless you are in receipt of full reimbursement within 14days. 

This may be considered a little extreme, but unfortunately you are now at a point of no return ( through no fault of your own) and judging by the experiences of others you are going to have to spend to get back to where you were. My best advice would be to ensure that you keep all your roads open to allow the least complicated route to trying to recoupe whatever you can from this.

Good luck with whatever happens from here.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Gasman]

I am shocked by what I have read with the above posts and the attitude of the dealers. I would have thought that any work carried out by any garage that negatively affected the operation of your vehicle would be their responsibility to rectify and that trading standards would be interested. I certainly would go down the legal route if the garage failed to return my vehicle in as good a condition as delivered to them.

[Gasman]

The link is for the guardian paper and makes interesting reading https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/mar/25/vw-volkswagen-audi-skoda-seat-emissions-fix-left-car-undriveable. 

Before you agree to the update you should read this and the recommendation to reverse the update.

[Kathryn]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I will see what happens when I take it in. I have been printing off useful info on forums that I can take with me when I go.

On the link you sent Gareth it says that remapping will get rid of the update. Has anyone tried this? If it does work, i may spend the extra and get it done (may work out cheaper in the end).

[rbdazza]

I haven't read all of the posts on this forum so forgive me. I'm commenting as I've read of lots of people's experiences and have too received a letter today telling me to take my car in for the recall. That certainly won't be happening. 

The recall is a "fix" not an upgrade and certainly not a legal requirement. What I believe they are doing is forcing the car to meet the same emissions standards in long term use as they forced it to meet when it was first tested and detected the testing equipment plugged in. In order to decrease the emissions the performance and economy will be worse. I imagine that they are also making the egr valve do things it was never designed to do hence it failing. 

If it were me I would be taking it straight a loca tuner and getting a stage 1 remap with egr delete done. It isn't expensive and will transform your car. Until Audi admit fault I don't see another option. 

[UltraBlack]

Hi guys

 

Today I recieved a opt in or out letter from Audi asking whether I want the update EA189 so they can update their records. Definitely not going to have it done however it does make me think that something is brewing on the horizon so the people who choose not have the update do not recieve so kind of compensation. 

Maybe its me but I do hope that compensation will happen

 

 

[Steve Q]

21 hours ago, UltraBlack said:

Hi guys

 

Today I recieved a opt in or out letter from Audi asking whether I want the update EA189 so they can update their records. Definitely not going to have it done however it does make me think that something is brewing on the horizon so the people who choose not have the update do not recieve so kind of compensation. 

Maybe its me but I do hope that compensation will happen

 

 

Definitely don't have it done. The vag group can't force you to have it done as it's your car. 

With regard to compensation I think it will be very unlikely that anyone in Europe will get anything as technically non of the VAG cars actually breached European emissions rules and regs despite the cheat device this is why we can opt out. It's more the dishonesty that the EU is annoyed about. We are not as strict here in europe compared to the US.