Noise when turning

[cliffcoggin]

I suspected from the start that the noise you describe was that of a CV joint, but your later messages suggested they had been tested. Like you, I do not believe the gearbox is the problem as the noise would then happen with the steering straight ahead as well as the turned.

[Gavo]

Thanks cliff,

I am not mechanically minded to be honest with you and when u told me how to test these I may have incorrectly tested them even though you advised me how. 

Im glad you agree with me about being told it could be something to do with my gearbox something I can not see. Most things have now been changed on the car apart from the inner cv joint/shaft. 

I have had the tyres turned to the correct rotation direction and guess what the issue is still there.

i think I only have one other option is to now visit audi for them to investigate it hopefully they find the issue as someone has too and if they diagnose as a bad shaft/inner CV joint or steering rack then I'll be requesting my money back from the vw/Audi specialist (£120)  cuz clearly they haven't looked at the car correctly as a bad inner cv joint or shaft or steering rack should be easy diagnoseable rather than just suggesting gearbox oil/ possible rebuild 

Booked for 29th auagust so hopefully we can finally find what the issue is

 

[Dan3222]

As daft as this sounds has someone looked at the rear bearings? You never know! I don't mean change them to see but just manually check them.

Inner CV joints don't really make noise per say when failing and you would usually get a distinct vibration while driving. However, if a bearing inside the inner CV joint is dry then I guess it could make noise I guess.

do you have wheel spacers on the car, for a different offset?

[cliffcoggin]

Dan. Do you really mean the rear wheel bearings? I am struggling to understand the relevance.

[Gavo]

Thanks Dan

I am not sure what this is, I am just throwing ideas out there. Would a bad inner CV joint cause hum/grind or a vibration that can be felt in the car.

As for rear wheel bearings I think nobody has looked at these as I seem to hear the noise from the front end of the car when turning rather than the rear.

I have booked it in at Audi for next week fingers crossed they can find the issue and fix what ever the issue is

[Dan3222]

Yeah I do mean the rear bearings. I experienced this on my T5. Its has the same bearings on the front and rear. You can tell this because the hub has a hole in the centre to receive a drive shaft if My T5 was a 4 motion, but it is not. I had little noise, if any, when driving in a straight line but when I turned to the left I could hear the typical bearing grumble. I was convinced it was the front right bearing on its way out. But when I put it on ramps (my local garage lets me use their ramps after hours 😋) I could not find a fault with the fronts. However, just because I had the van on the ramps I checked the rear axle for wear in the bushes etc and when I then span the rear right wheel I could here bearing noise.  Normally a rear bearing would make noise all the time, not just on cornering, but because the bearings are the front design and not a typical tapered bearing normally used on the rear of a vehicle this was the symptom and therefore fix.

This is why I asked if anyone knew if the rear bearings on this car are the same as the fronts!? It could explain the noise!

Yes Gavo, I have never had an issues or come across an issue with an inner CV joint making a noise on turning before. Only ever a clunking on pick up of drive from stand still or a vibration which is usually at a very specific speed range like 38-42mph. But, as I say everyday is a school day and in your case who knows. All I will say is your car is the best serviced car in the U.K. Right now!! There is a lol in there somewhere mate.

[cliffcoggin]

That's a new one on me Dan. I'll bare it in mind for the future.

[Magnet]

This remains an expensive mystery. I understand where Dan is coming from in regard to checking the rear wheel bearings as well, since I have found that noises transmit, and it can sometimes be difficult to determine actually where that transmitted noise originates. Taper roller bearings on the rear are fairly rare in my experience but.... 

Re. Inner CV joints - I too am of the opinion that these normally cause vibration, but can obviously also cause clonking on taking up the drive. 

Interesting to see what happens from here.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Gavo]

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments.

I can not be sure if the rear baring have been checked but presuming they have due to the amount of places it has been and to be fair the places I have took them can hear the issue but are unable to find the issue, but surely the noise shouldn't be there but why only when turning even slightly or if I pull off hard on an angle it can be herd but at higher speeds nothing. When taking it to the Audi specialist he mentioned he could hear the noise/vibration on the chassis of the car but they went straight to a gearbox issue but as I stated to them surely I would have other symptoms  if the gearbox was bad and the car drives perfectly and I told him I am not prepared to authorise the work of a gearbox rebuild based on there guessing it could be a gearbox issue. plus the car is only 5 years old with 77k on the clock

The only things I could see it being and again I am guessing, is bad drive shafts ( due to the noise happening while in motion) or steering rack.  I have booked it in to Audi Birmingham for Tuesday 29th August as i am presuming these will be able to find the problem with the car.. However if it is rear wheel Barings i will kick myself

Thanks all for your comments, i would have ignored the issue but not sure if its dangerous to drive.

 

[OnrA3]

Following

[Dan3222]

Taper roller bearings on the rear are fairly rare in my experience but.... 

Gareth, I am more used to working on pre 90's 80's and 70's cars. With drums on the back. Maybe my terminology is incorrect but thevrear bearings I am used to are common with drum brakes. A race and bearing, which is usually angled hence 'tapered' on 70's and older these where held together by a castle type nut and split pin. More recent cars, a faced nut.

Years of driving company cars have meant I haven't done much with newer cars especially ones with disc rear brakes, until recent years. Which is what took me by surprise with the T5 rear bearings.

KR

Dan

 

[Dan3222]

Any news Gavo?

[Gavo]

Hi All,

Apologies for not comming back sooner, i have checked the rear barinng to see if there is any play on them but they seem solid but i know even though the feel solid they could be bad when there is load on them.

Car is booked into Audi on tuesday next week so hopefully they can find the issue so i can get it resolved once and for all.

[Dan3222]

Ok, keep us posted though!

[Gavo]

Hi all,

just to give everyone an update.

i took the car to Audi as planned and took the guy who was going to be inspecting the car and within seconds I was able replicate the noise and he has indicated it's something to do with the drivers rear side of the car but wouldn't confirm it without inspecting the car. Audi did not have any space to inspect the car that day so it's re booked for a full diagnostic next Thursday. He believes he can hear it more from the rear rather than the front end of the car so apart from wheel barings not quite sure what it could be untill next Thursday fingers crossed 

 

[Brad-B5]

I hope it goes well Gavin, keep us updated :)

[Magnet]

That's encouraging Gavin,

As Dan pointed out earlier, it could be rear wheel bearing associated, and as I said, noises are funny things and certainly can cheat the ear, and in my experience, noises which appear to be coming from the front can be from the rear. 

What's at the rear to make rotational noises? Much less than the front :- tyres, wheel bearings, brake assemblies. 

One of the very few non-service items on our 143k A3 to give problems was a rear wheel bearing. Noise was not excessive, was liveable with and there wasn't any play, but we changed it anyway. 

If you are going to get it changed (at Audi no debate on parts used) then make sure you use good quality parts since there are some c...p aftermarket bearings on the market. Believe this bearing came as a hub assembly incase this helps. 

Kind regards,

Gateth.

[Gavo]

Thanks Gareth for your message.

I will kick myself if it turns out to be a rear wheel barings but if It is I'll be glad that it is then we know the issue and it's an easy fix. I know it's not tyre related( Audi confirmed as speed is to slow under 5 mph) as it's had 2 new tyres on and rear disks and brakes so that eliminates them parts. So we maybe looking at barings/caliper/struts I think that's about it on the back

Im just glad I didn't authorise  the Audi specialists to work on my gearbox as it would have been a lot of money and still wouldn't have fixed the issue. 

 

[Gavo]

Hi All,

I have recieved my car back from Audi today and they have confirmed the fault as strut top noise when turning however they have given me a quoteation of £677 to change 2 top mounts and labour ( top mounts are £98 quid and labour is £450 - 3 hours) seems along time to change top mounts

[cliffcoggin]

I couldn't do the job in anything like that time, but I am no mechanic, however £150 per hour is an extraordinary rate. What will you do?

[Gavo]

Hi Cliff

Thanks for your message.

I do think its very expensive rate per hour - £150 per hour x 3 = £450 - i wouldnt mind the parts only cost £98 quid.

Either way i am going to have to get this work carried out howver based on the fact iv only owned the car a few months (bought in may 2017) and iv spent alot of money on various of issues which really i should have spent ( disk & pads all round - wheel barings & hub for both front wheels & Calipers  - Outer CV joints & new tyres all round) so far im in for around £600/£700 quid roughly.  Due to the new sales of goods act 2015 the car must be satifactory quality for atlest 6 months any issues raised during that time will deem that the car was sold like it. I riased the issue with the dealer in july ( 2 months after purchase) - I am writting the letter today and sending it 1st class recoreded and giving him 14 days to respond, if he fails then ill be looking at getting the work completed and claiming for everything back. so it would be in his best intrests to offer to pay Audi for the work or get the work completed himself at his cost.

Ill keep you all updated on how it goes and once these have been changed and if that was my issue - just glad the issue has been found and can easly be fixed - glad i didnt go with having my gearbox looked at barings/oil.

Thanks for everyones support on this matter

[Magnet]

Hello Gavin,

Um!! 

I would strongly (STRONGLY - sorry about shouting!) recommend you stop (STOP) sit down with a drink and try to work through the logic of this, before throwing more money at it. 

I have relooked at your original post and in my mind you are describing a rotational/moving noise and not a steering /turning noise. I could be wrong in that interpretation, but.....

The Audi technician suggested rear wheel bearing issues, (which - might - make some sense) now they say the noise is associated with the upper suspension leg mounts? , which in my book would equate to a simple 'noise when turning the steering wheel' and not a rotational noise. I fear you may be throwing good money after bad - yet again. I could be wrong, but..... please think on before diving in again. 

Re. Main dealer per hour labour rates. About it I guess. After all, large premises, staff, overheads etc. all add up, and although it's easy to think these are rip off rates, perhaps we should consider whether we would want to finance such an operation on lower labour rates. 

Reclaim from the selling dealer?? Pessimistic view, but work on the principle that you will not succeed and you might not be too disappointed. What you have to appreciate Gavin is that a court may look on this that you have spent £X on trying to solve a noise which you still have, so that expenditure was not justified. Pretty blunt but simple. Please, please,  don't run the risk of spending more again and finding you are no better off.

Just take stock for a bit.

I genuinely wish you all good luck in whatever you decide.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[Gavo]

Thanks Gareth for your message.

yeah I do agree with your message especially regarding I hear the noise when turning and moveing off from a stand still that a rear wheel baring maybe the culpriate. Dose seem strange for them to put it down to a top mount. 

While it was in Audi I had them do a Heath check on the car which have all come back fine wheel barings was checked cv joints shafts engine compartment clutch operation brakes disks all come back ok apart from the top mounts noisey when turning.

i have took he car everywhere I can think off and I don't know what else really I can do about it that's why I took it too Audi.

as for the claiming from the dealership it was just an idea as I don't think it's fair iv spent all this money so far and I understand a few things iv bought was down to my own doing wheel baring & outer cv joints - brakes and tyres really are classed as wear & tear.

as for replaceing these items i would be looking at getting them done else where as I think that price from Audi is very expensive especially for what the part is. 

Also I have the camera footage of the top stunt - when turning there is slight movement but when the wheel are turned and in motion u can see the top mount moveing upon down if that helps 

[Magnet]

Hello Gavin,

I really don't want to protract this thread and repeat advice, since it is only my advice - and its your car, and your money, but....

To put it simply:-

Would I spend a large amount of money on getting these mounts done in the hope that this will cure the noise you seemed to describe in your first post? 

No, I most certainly would not! 

Of course, others may, or may not, agree with this, and you have to spend your money as you see fit.

Good luck with whatever you do, and it would be great to know how you get on. Fingers crossed that whatever you decide, it will work out for you.

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[cliffcoggin]

I share Gareth's concern about throwing good money after bad, however if Audi will guarantee that their repair will stop the noise and eliminate whatever movement you can see, (which I admit I find hard to visualise,) then I would consider having it done. You need to weigh that cost against the likely cost of repairs to a different car. (I am a firm believer that secondhand cars will always need spent on them, no matter what the dealers offer by way of guarantees.)