B8 tdi 143 whine after timing belt change

[B8sline143]

Hi i have recently purchased a lovely low mileage 2010 a4 s line tdi 143 , its fantastic however i noticed one issue that i didnt notice during test drive . 

I am getting a whine when i'm travelling slow in first abd 2nd gear that develops into a turbo like whistle when accelerated . Almost like a supercharger sound. 

I am now convinced that the timing belt tension is to blame after much research as the garage put a new genuine kit and water pump on as part of the deal, please note this noise was not there when i test drive the car prior to timing belt change.

 

At this stage the garage refuses to see a problem, hiwever i done my own research and renoved the top timing belt inspection cover, it seems clear to me that the tensioner is overtightned as the marks do not line up as i believe they should making me believe the belt is overtightend causing said whine, see pic attached.

So my question now is can the tensioner now be put to the correct tension without replacing the whole lot, and also without stripping all the bits that needed removed to fit the whole kit.?

Will the belt have stretched? It is a kevlar belt as far as i know.

 

Any experienced audi VAG technicians on here i look forward to your response?

Thanks

 

 

[B8sline143]

Said vehicle 😉

[B8sline143]

Anyone?

[Brad-B5]

Hi Gav

Sorry for the long reply time, someone will be with you to give you proper and helpful advice soon :) unfortunately I'm not an expert with this issue and don't want to give you any false details.

Best regards

Bradley

[B8sline143]

Thanks Bradley

[Magnet]

Hello Gav,

It's the weekend, and the instant reply department is closed! Only joking. 

Question:- Is the whining noise audible when the car is at rest and the engine rev. ed slightly? If not then my stab at this would be that it is unlikely to be the cambelt  - but I could be wrong.

As a I see it, if you suspect the the belt is too tight, and the garage who fitted it contests this then the only option open to you is to have it inspected and adjusted (without delay) by another reputable garage or ideally an Audi independent. You would of course need to inform the dealer who did this that this is what you are going to do. The arguement of who pays (reimburses you) will be open for debate once things are sorted or agreed were OK in the first place. 

I would think that whatever information you get from the forum isn't actually going to resolve this "on the ground", and you do need independent hands-on advice. 

Good luck,

Gareth.

p.s. Genuine VAG kit (including water pump) used? 

 

[B8sline143]

All genuine kit used. Whine is audible at idle only at low revs up to 1500revs when taking off in 1st and 2nd gear . 

 

Then a high pitched whine develops when flooring it in 3rd and fourth that i would assume is the pulleys under stress

 

I have already contacted a good idependent with a good rep to adjust it asap as it is clearly not right judging by the markings on the tensioner.

 

His thoughts where that the tensioner looked 'crazy' tight and the pulleys will whine!!!! I hope the adjustment sorts this or the dealer will have one very unhappy customer as they car was 100 percent fine before the belt change.

[Magnet]

Well it seems you are already on the right line of action. All I think anyone would  recommend meanwhile is not flooring it in 3rd and fourth! 

[B8sline143]

Thanks for your reply Magnet, would this have caused any damage to the car do you think? I have been avoiding unneccesary runs and i will have it sorted asap, i have been driving high gears and low rpm ( car basically at idle) to avoid any damage.

I would release the tensioner back myself as i know exactly how it is done but i am not sure if the camshaft etc would need pinned at TDC before i would do this as i do not want to upset the timing!

[B8sline143]

Genuine belt shown in pic below

[Magnet]

Hello Gav.

Driving slowly and in high gears and little strain in the engine - well done - and there's me thinking you were flooring it!, Sorry Gav. - I think you are doing the right thing, but don't let the engine labour in too high a gear even with low revs.

Adjudting it yourself? I wouldn't fiddle if it were mine. Bad for your case if you are going to progress this.

Kind regards, 

Gareth.

[B8sline143]

Can anyone shed any light on the position of the tensioner marker. This is taken after the belt had been fitted and car driven, now i know the marker does move back and fourth slightly when car is running, but should it return to the position it was set to (when set correctly, marks lining up) when the car is turned off. 

Thanks

[Via]

The arrow should be in line with the notch and no more than 5mm past notch once tightened down. Hard to tell from photo but looks more than 5mm to me.

[B8sline143]

 

5 minutes ago, Via said:

The arrow should be in line with the notch and no more than 5mm past notch once tightened down. Hard to tell from photo but looks more than 5mm to me.

It is more closer to 10mm past the notch. When the engine is warm.

 

I am having a independent VAG technician adjust it and hopefully it cures the whine.

 

Do you know if he will be able to adjust it without stripping the front bumper off?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Via]

Guideline is to repeat installation if it goes over 5mm, simple answer is if it is to be done properly then yes would need to come off again and everything aligned and slackened before tensioner reset. I wouldn't trust anything less on these, an older car you could probably get away with just leaning in an readjusting tensioner but more modern cars all the pulleys are spring loaded and have to be set in order otherwise throws timing out.

[B8sline143]

Had the car back with the dealer today and they are contesting this i believe they have filled with a load of hot air blaming the whine as the way the steering rack is mounted in these cars.

I am fuming! But trying to keep things as amicable as possible.

Had the car took over on my behalf and this is the update they emailed me to brief me on what was done. How they can think this is an acceptable excuse is beyond me.

Here goes the reply

 

'Hi Gavin

 

We have just put your car through workshop and my mechanic has test drove the car – the noise your are hearing is due to the power steering system mounting position of steering rack giving an effect of a whirling noise which is a normal operation of this vehicle.

 

We also checked timing belt tensioner all with parameters and all OK and found no faults in car- but it is always better to get these issues checked out'

 as regards to there comments that the tensioner is OK here is a photo of it today, they also told me that this tensioner is hydraulically self adjusting and there is no way it can be too tight.

 

Note the black rubber glazing on the roller

[Audi Owners Club.]

Hi Gav

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but I believe the tensioner may be over-slack, not over-tight...hence the reason the idler has the deposits on it. Have found this to be a common problem on VAG engines where the belt is too loose and it 'glides' over the top of the idler pulley rather than turning it. This then leads to overheating of the belt and then complete failure. Or the debris could be there from previously and they didn't replace the roller.

[Via]

Absolute bull! That tensioner is not hydraulic and certainly not self adjusting... If it was there would be no need for notches and marks.

Hydraulic tensioners are much more obvious, they for starters have a visable hydraulic piston (funnily enough) which holds the tensioner in place, normally more common on serpentine belts where you just lever against the tensioner and slip belt on / off. They are used in cam belts but that is not one.

Have included a screen shot, point 26 shows 5mm limit.

Also judging by that picture I'd guess that roller is old, wouldn't expect it to be looking like that already and back of belt (thats visible at least) has no sign of damage.

[B8sline143]

3 hours ago, Via said:

Absolute bull! That tensioner is not hydraulic and certainly not self adjusting... If it was there would be no need for notches and marks.

Hydraulic tensioners are much more obvious, they for starters have a visable hydraulic piston (funnily enough) which holds the tensioner in place, normally more common on serpentine belts where you just lever against the tensioner and slip belt on / off. They are used in cam belts but that is not one.

Have included a screen shot, point 26 shows 5mm limit.

Also judging by that picture I'd guess that roller is old, wouldn't expect it to be looking like that already and back of belt (thats visible at least) has no sign of damage.

Thabks for the replys guys

 

Via, from looking at the pics would you say the tensioner is too tight?

 

What do you make of comments regarding steering rack position causing a noise that is common of these cars?

[Magnet]

Hello Gav,

You will have to excuse me if I've got this all wrong, but I sense this is (or likely to be ) developing into a potential battle between yourself and the dealer you dealt with.

To me, the prime objective here is to get this belt assembly inspected by an experienced (Audi independent?) and the necessary adjustments or replacements made without delay, rather than you and us on here - at a distance - trying to analyse the issue. I really don't see the proper and rapid resolution of this should be hampered by trying to work it all out on a DIY basis. 

As I say, sorry if you don't see the same (urgent) course of action that I do, but I just wondered how you would feel if anything did actually go wrong with this belt assembly while you are trying to work it out on your own. Yes, you might have some redress, but would you really want to be arguing over the resultant scrap car? 

As a matter of interest. what part of the U.K. are you , incase someone can recommend an independent in your area? 

Kind regards,

Gareth.

[B8sline143]

Im in northern ireland

[Magnet]

Thanks Gav,

I guess you might have to narrow NI down a bit if it would help you to find someone who would be able to recommend a suitable independent to examine and rectify this, but.....

I can only repeat that if it were mine, I would be urgently seeking localish experienced hands-on inspection and rectification rather than looking too closely on here, or dealing with your complaint issue with the people who did the work.

Dramatic perhaps, but treat tomorrow with the respect that it could be the day that this assembly does something nasty if you are not happy with it - as you aren't.

I think you are absolutely correct in being concerned, but I am concerned for you that your concern! - may be getting misplaced rather than acted upon. 

Good luck, 

Gareth.

 

[audiA4carpet]

@B8sline143

An old thread, but what happened in the end?

[Magnet]

Hello Peter,

Wondered if you have a similar issue, or simply an general interest in how this planned out.

Perhaps you could let us know. 

As you will probably realise, the original poster joined and last posted within 1 week of joining - some 2 1/2 years ago- so getting any response from him??? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[audiA4carpet]

General interest. 

It seems to happen a lot on many forums, but It's a bit rude to start a thread, and then not update it with an outcome either way.