DUNLOP MAXX GT Tyres - splitting

[Magnet]

Not for me to recommend - but for someone in authority who runs this forum? 

Is it time to recommend ( not a strong enough word) that anyone who has a vehicle fitted with these tyres gets them professionally checked at a tyre retailer without delay? 

Surely this has been going on long enough, and in sufficient reported frequencies, to deduce there is something significantly and dangerously wrong here - to an extent where this is life threatening. 

Not to do so would be remiss (again not a strong enough word). 

Kind regards,

Gareth.  

[NoFEARfreak]

Hi,

Same problem with my 4 tyres Dunlop Sport Maxx GT 275 30 R21 (2x DOT 0217 and 2x DOT 5216) 

[Audi_Addict]

Wow, that's pretty bad. Worse than mine

[Steve Q]

6 hours ago, NoFEARfreak said:

Hi,

Same problem with my 4 tyres Dunlop Sport Maxx GT 275 30 R21 (2x DOT 0217 and 2x DOT 5216) 

Now that is really bad. 

[NoFEARfreak]

I send the tires to the importer and after 3 weeks received this answer:

Quote

The tire is advertised outside the warranty period. It has pronounced double-sided wear on the shoulders. Uneven wear and mechanical damage is not the result of a defect in the manufacturing process, but of the conditions in use. The complaint is not approved.

 

[Steve Q]

1 hour ago, NoFEARfreak said:

I send the tires to the importer and after 3 weeks received this answer:

 

That's not good! Might be worth making them aware of this thread. Might help shows its a well.known issue. 

Cheers

Steve

[Magnet]

Six pages of posts and almost 3 years on, and still issues with these tyres, but remarkably no one dead or seriously injured yet? -well that we know of. 

Personally, I’m surprised that the administration of this forum hasn’t yet commented on why the forum hasn’t initiated  pursuing  this with the manufacturers. Surely with the collective evidence they have been made aware of, they are in a better position than most to initiate collective inroads, than a series of individuals acting on their own. Isn’t not to do so, rather remiss? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Steve Q]

1 hour ago, Magnet said:

Six pages of posts and almost 3 years on, and still issues with these tyres, but remarkably no one dead or seriously injured yet? -well that we know of. 

Personally, I’m surprised that the administration of this forum hasn’t yet commented on why the forum hasn’t initiated  pursuing  this with the manufacturers. Surely with the collective evidence they have been made aware of, they are in a better position than most to initiate collective inroads, than a series of individuals acting on their own. Isn’t not to do so, rather remiss? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Hi Gareth, going to get Trevor to answer that one. 

Cheers

Steve

[Magnet]

Thanks Steve. Apologies Trevor! 

If forums such as this are not platforms to communally move progress on repeated (safety) issues, then surely this must come under the heading of ‘.....could do better.......’. 

Whatever, I feel it might be too late coming to the party! 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Audi Owners Club.]

2 hours ago, Magnet said:

Six pages of posts and almost 3 years on, and still issues with these tyres, but remarkably no one dead or seriously injured yet? -well that we know of. 

Personally, I’m surprised that the administration of this forum hasn’t yet commented on why the forum hasn’t initiated  pursuing  this with the manufacturers. Surely with the collective evidence they have been made aware of, they are in a better position than most to initiate collective inroads, than a series of individuals acting on their own. Isn’t not to do so, rather remiss? 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

Hi Gareth, Steve.

Unfortunately, we as a club don't have any influence with tyre manufacturers, let alone vehicle manufacturers and as such pretty much zero authority in a case of warranty or product recall.
The posts obviously highlight a trend with poor quality tyres (although having said that I run Dunlop tyres on my motorbike and my BMW Z3 and have no issues whatsoever over the years and trust the grip implicitly). Although I have seen this on a few different occasions and each were on different tyre brands (Metzeler comes to mind where the whole casing split around the sidewall but this was definitely down to age and inactivity).

However, there are bad batches of tyres that come through into the market, Pirelli had an issue with their P4 tyre which actually stripped the whole tread from the casing where it wasn't bonded properly. The most worrying trend is Chinese manufactured tyres ("ditch-finders" as they are affectionately known) being actively sold through major tyre retailers and these are lethal, having zero grip, going out of shape, and extremely noisy. 

In the case of the Dunlop tyres splitting, I could only recommend the check the condition and manufacture date and take it directly to the tyre companies that supplied them (if fitted since new) or if occurring on an new Audi then to take it back to the supplying dealership.
Again, it is worth checking the country of manufacture and any batch numbers to see if there is any common theme here.

If we can categorically find a recurring theme then it would be worth collating the information to forward to the relevant tyre manufacturer to raise awareness of the issue. 

 

[Ross Gilsenan]

Hi All.

I'm in exactly the same scenario on my RS7. I've had quite the scare with a blow out at high speed and one at approximately 40 mph... Not a nice experience and tbh, totally unacceptable. Further to that, I checked the rear tyres and they were also demonstrating the exact same failure to the front!

This is a failure of the tyre and one which is clearly a common one... 

So far, I have raised the issue directly with goodyear. The tyres have been sent back and awaiting their response.

However, this is clearly a safety issue and one that has not been rectified over time. I can see owners raising this issue from 2013 up to 2019. 

The only reason I came by across this thread is in relation to doing some research to take them on with this issue. I was saddened to read about a clear failure in design happening to so many people.To date - All 4 tyres have failed with the exact same issue - Scary!

[Magnet]

Thanks Ross, 

I’m sure the forum and others will be very interested in the ongoings and outcome of your very valid ‘taking them on’ intention. 

Perhaps you could keep the forum up to date on how you get on, since clearly, someone needs to get some positive outcome from this. Too long overdue. 

Good luck and kind regards,

Gareth, 

[Devilbuick41]

So, to join the lengthening debate.

I had two rear blow outs originally and not knowing any better I replaced with like (doh!). Since then I have had the other four tyres go the same way, the rears again being the latest.

When the second set went I got the tyres back to Goodyear Tyre UK for examination and in the report they mainly hand their hat on two points; underinflation or accidental impacts which over extend the side wall of the tyres.

I take issue with this on the following points:

1. It always seems to the be the inside wall of the tyre that goes, not the outside. Underinflation would cause both side walls to over extend.

2. Accidental impacts appear to be ruled out at tyres crack at the same time across axles, rears, then fronts and then rears again. Suggesting this is a lifecycle issue not underinflation nor impacts.

3. No uneven tyre wear was mentioned in the report which would be the case of underinflation, noting also the tyre monitoring system in the A7 should be sufficient to catch these things or why have it on the car Audi?, hence should be ruled out.

4.Noting the speed rating for the tyres being considerably in excess of UK road speed limits the impact would have to be severe to over extend the side wall and would therefore likely be evident on the wheel itself.

I've just written most of the above back to them today asking for 60% of six tyres, as I did get some life out of them, as well as several hours messing around getting replacements.

Time will tell........

Steve

[Ross Gilsenan]

Dear Admin

Is there a way I can get all these posts compiled into one zip-file - I'm also doing the same across other forums in a bid to escalate this safety issue.  My reasons are twofold - I feel that each costumer as an individual claimant are being "fobbed-off", but more importantly, this is a SAFETY issue - We only hear about the people who are sharing their experiences, what about the people unaware of this common failure and continue to drive without checking, or the people that have had a major RTA or heaven forbid worse...  Somewhere in the process, something is going wrong that is resulting in the tyre failure - We can't all be driving with under-inflated tyres and accidental impacts - Can we?

If I could get a copy of the posts on one file, it would really help in the preparation of a consumer case.  I can't believe all the pictures here of a same failure and still, it is happening to some poor driver again and again.

Any help would be most appreciated in advance. 

[Devilbuick41]

Update 6/10/20 - Peter Wayte from Goodyear technical advisor called to say that they won't pay anything out unless they have the tyres for inspection.

This means every time there is an issue someone, i.e. the consumer, has to remember to retain the tyres when they are changed and find somewhere that will send them back via the dealer network, not all places will. He has kindly (!) resent the test reports from the previous tyres which only states "The tyre shows clear evidence of having been used over-deflected by overload, underinflation or a combination of both". This does not clearly state what happened just that it isn't a manufacturing issue, which translates as user error.

He responded to my comment about failing on the inside shoulder that "Where a vehicle is set up with a negative camber more weight is carried by the inside of the tyre than the outside. Under the circumstances if there are load or pressure issues this is the area most likely to show it." I still don't buy this as this would surely show as uneven tyre wear.

For me there is also the question of Audi having OEM wheels and tyres that result in premature failure of the side wall despite there being a tyre monitoring system. If the system is not granular enough to detect low pressures in an OEM tyre contributing to its failure then some culpability rests with Audi.

Answers on a postcard please, but I'm considering my next steps are Citizens Advice Bureau or the small claims court. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 describes goods as being fit for purpose and lasting a reasonable length of time.

Email from Peter Wayte 26th March 2020 after last set were sent for analysis:

"thank you for taking my call and I was sorry to have to advise you no warranty allowance had been recommended by our inspection centre. I have attached the letters which went in the post but it looks as though the submitting dealer did not have your house number or name. The letters are addressed as information is submitted into our computer by the dealer.

 

The examiner felt the tyres exhibited over-deflection. This is when a tyres sidewall can flex more then it was designed to do. After a while it can exhibit splits. This can either happen if the tyres have not had enough air in them, (we recommend checking the inflation every month at a minimum as tyre / wheel combinations will over time lose air), or by overload for example a vehicle is loaded for a journey with family, pets luggage etc. If the vehicle manufacturer recommend higher pressures for such a journey inflating to these is required. The condition can also be caused by a combination of both.

 

I have also added below a couple of pictures for each tyre. Both sets of photos show the  sidewall and also the beads. The beads are the part of the tyre which sits on the rim. Both beads exhibited some blueing which is a sign of heat build up and also grooving. Both blueing and grooving are conditions which would be expected to be seen if the tyres have had over-deflection from underinflation or overloading.

 

400710465

 

 

 

 

400710446

 

 

 

I appreciate that you are likely to be disappointed by this reply and can only suggest that if you remain doubtful about our decision, you seek the services of a recognized independent tyre consultant, details of which should be available from the British Tyre Manufacturers' Association, telephone 01787 226995.  I must point out that we will only accept the findings of a BTMA approved examiner and that you must pay for the examination yourself in the first instance.  However, if such an expert believes that your tyre contains any evidence of a manufacturing irregularity, on receipt of their written report we will gladly change our dealer advice to a 100% allowance on the tyre and refund to you the cost of such expert examination.

 

Under the circumstances and given the delay in you receiving the letter I have asked our inspection centre to now hold your tyre for a further 28 days from todays date (26/3/20). I have done this should you decide upon using a BTMA registered examiner. If you are requiring the tyres back for such an examination please as per our original letter, contact the Easy Tyre dealer who returned the tyres to us so they can arrange return to themselves."

[Magnet]

Hello Steve,

I can understand their request to have the tyres back for inspection. However, if it were mine, I would still retain one as evidence of the issue.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Ross Gilsenan]

Hi Steve

Thank you for sharing your feedback and the "data"(for want of a better word) from Goodyear.

I think it's terrible the way the ball is pushed to the consumer to do all the chasing and follow-up with independent tyre consultant.  Like I said in previous post, as an individual person, they are fobbing people off left-right-centre.  There are ways that this can be collectively presented as a consumer group and I'm currently looking into it.  I work a lot with the investigation teams from a media and documentary background, and I'm speaking with some friends within the team to investigate a way to move this forward and put the ball back in their court.

My tyres have been with them since May and still no feedback on their findings.  As Gareth mentioned, I have retained one tyre and sent them the other 3.  I  was able to take pictures of the ones on the vehicle in it's natural stance where you can clearly see the split forming - Tyre pressure was captured and the console computer showing pressure to account for correct settings.

You are 100% correct about Audi and they should be more interested in the failure of their OEM wheels and tyres.  They must have similar customer complaints or records of this failure.

I'm pushing goodyear for the formal findings and feedback so I have my own report and then progress things from there. I never want to experience a failure like that again and I was so lucky to bring the car to a controlled stop.  Good luck with yours mate and I'll be sure to update the page on any progress from my side.

 

[Devilbuick41]

Hi Magnet - I think that the point is that Goodyear (Dunlop) won't pay out unless they see the tyre so if you only send one they may only pay you for part of that tyre, i.e. nothing for the tyre you keep. This also relies on the consumer being aware of the potential issue with these tyres so that you request the tyre fitter that you want the tyres before they are disposed of and they are willing to return them to Goodyear through the dealer network. Otherwise you will have to get them to Goodyear at your cost. 

Hi Ross - Thanks for the offer of picking up the baton here. I've just been on to Citizens Advice Bureau who suggest that initially the responsibility lies with who sold you the car (or finance company) and then the company that replaces the original tyres, as this is the way the law works under Consumer Rights Act 2015. Therefore Audi Finance, if most people bought there vehicles on their finance, would be liable for the tyres sold with the car. Any tyres replaced maybe through Audi or other tyre fitters.

This has also got me thinking that a lot of people may have been sold tyre protection insurance when they bought the vehicle and simply claimed off that. The insurance company, Car Care Plan?, may be a good source of info if they are willing / able to provide it.

They said that any warranty provided by Goodyear (Dunlop) sits outside the Consumer Rights Act 2015 law and is only subject to the rules that they offer with the warranty.

Finally, they did say that they would pass the details on to trading standards who would contact me if they needed more info.

 

[Magnet]

Hello Steve,

OK, re retaining and not being able to claim for that tyre. So, does one pass all the hard evidence over for judgement - and seldom or ever get any reimbursement anyway, or keep one typical affected tyre as evidence for independent assessment? Obviously, no tyre, no evidence, no claim, no independent assessment.

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Neil MacRae]

Hi All

 

i had a Dunlop go on me today exact same. 275/30 21. Though I took out RAC tyre cover and RAC have given me £150 towards a new tyre. Might be something to think about adding to your breakdown cover. Get 5 claims in a year. 
 

Neil 

[Magnet]

Hello Neil, 

Many thanks for sharing your helpful information regarding the RAC tyre insurance. 

I wonder if you would be kind enough to let the forum know what the cost of the breakdown cover was, and the add-on cost for the tyre insurance. 

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Andy Street]

I had this problem on my A7 in August 2020. Both rear tyres failed the MOT with 5mm tread due to inner side wall splits (as shown in other posts). Audi Worcester informed me it was common on the A7 and suggested changing to Pirelli in future. Apparently it is due to the lateral movement of the car causing the sidewall to deflect and split. Sadly my wife had passed away 2 days before and I had them replaced without making any fuss. In hindsight, I should have retained them but do have the dealer service video. It's going in for rear brake pads on Monday and I've asked for an inspection report. It's clear that the Dunlop Tyre has a manufacturing/application issue.

[Magnet]

Hello Andy,

Many thanks for being in touch and sharing your experiences. I’m sorry to hear of your sad loss, and the unacceptable issue with these tyres couldn’t have come at a worse time for you. 

I just wonder if you did indeed change the rear tyres to Pirelli, and whether the fronts are still Dunlops. 

I don’t want to form definite conclusions with this serious issue, but it would appear ( perhaps in caps.) that these very low profile tyres are failing due to (unacceptable?) load issues, and if Dunlop are maintaining the faulty tyres are within specification, then they are being used in inappropriate conditions. If this is the case, then it is possible that Audi should not have specified/used them on these models.  

Kind regards,

Gareth. 

[Chris jenkins]

On 1/31/2019 at 12:00 PM, skull duggery said:

I have contacted BBC Watchdog and will await a reply if any.

I have also sent them a copy of this link so we will see what happens. hopefully something will be done.

James, Did you contact Watchdog? did you get a reply? and any update Dunlop?

Cheers

Chris

I have contacted bbc watchdog & also trading standards today as Goodyear Dunlop offered just 25% from dealer allowance & that to me is a insult 

25% on one tyre Rubbish & Simply Not Good enough from the manufacturers 

[Magnet]

Hello Chris,

Sorry to hear you too have had your, and other road user’s safety compromised by the ongoing saga with these tyres, and good for you,  for taking up the cause with Watchdog etc. 
To me, the impetuous for taking up the cause should not rest with any financial bias, but with the possible catastrophic affects on safety. 
Perhaps you could let us know how you get on. 
Kind regards,

Gareth.