Mark2

I have just had a response from the DVSA regarding my FOI request regarding Audi's respose to them. They have not send me any FOI info siting two sensitive issues which I think are BS and either a cover up for their inefficiency or the hope I will go away. I am escalating this to a DVSA internal review with my response below- Dear sirs, I am unhappy with the response from DVSA which has provided me with no information and the excuses appear perfunctory. It also may indicate lack of probing by the DVSA into the responses given by Audi and there is some back covering going on. I do hope that is not the case the DVSA must be working in the public interest. The two reasons for your failing to provide me with FOI information are summarised as follows : Section 31 -disclosure of info may harm your ability to obtain info in the future Section 43 -the information requested is commercially sensitive and could be used by any competitor to Audi I should like therefore to address each of my questions and test those against your reasoning above STAGE ONE 1] What are the visual and audible warnings triggered when the alternator fails to charge? This is a reasonable question and Audi have stated to you there is a two stage warning so that is in the public domain, they must have designed the mild hybrid cars with such systems and they would have advised users what those warnings were, otherwise they would not have designed any warnings. How can this answer possibly fall within Section 31 or 43? 2] How is the driver informed that the failure is that the alternator is no longer charging the battery? Vehicle manufacturers have generally for the last 80 years provided a warning lamp on the dash to warn the driver that the Dynamo/ alternator is no longer charging the battery. This is not a new system which could provide a competitor an advantage and it can hardly be regarded answering it as jeopardising the DVSA relationship with manufacturers. 3] How does this stage warn the driver that continued vehicle use will lead to ‘roll out’ and that he should park the vehicle safely as soon as possible ? This is actually what happens , any Audi competitor can discover this is what happens by searching on the internet or by replicating the failure in an Audi vehicle. Competitors buy their opponents vehicles all the time to check them out. These vehicle were designed 5-8 years ago so are not exactly cutting edge technology. As this is what occurs and in the public domain how can the answers possibly fall within your sections above. 4] How long does Stage One last before Stage Two kicks in? A reasonable question as Audi have declared there are two stages how can there be a secret about when they occur? 5] What does ‘the Code’ state is the reasonable warnings and time given to the driver to take action This is a question for the DVSA as it relates to your Code. How can your answering a question about your own procedures be governed by commercial sensitivity to a manufacturer? STAGE TWO 1] What are the visual and acoustic warnings triggered at stage two? This is a reasonable question and Audi have stated to you there is a two stage warning so that is in the public domain, they must have designed the mild hybrid cars with such systems and they would have advised users what those warnings were, otherwise they would not have designed any warnings. How can this answer possibly fall within Section 31 or 43? 2] How is the driver informed that he is now in Stage Two and this is becoming more critical? A reasonable question as Audi have declared there are two stages how can there be a secret about when they occur and their urgency? This is just the sort of driver info that the DVSA should be ensuring manufactures instal. 3] How does stage two warn the driver to stop as soon as possible and what is the average time frame between stage two activation and vehicle failure- ‘roll out’ ? Audi have declared the two stage warning, it is incomprehensible that the DVSA have not probed that further to establish the effectiveness of such a two stage system. This has no commercially sensitive info but is critical for any driver experiencing full vehicle shut down and as such must be in the DVSA’s remit to publish the answer. 4] What is the Code spec for stage two? This is a question for the DVSA as it relates to your Code. How can your answering a question about your own procedures be governed by commercial sensitivity to a manufacturer? I look forward to a full investigation and the DVSA providing answers which are of paramount safety interest to all Audi Mild Hybrid vehicle drivers.

Did not notice any changes in my RS6, all back to normal, but those are the items to kill if the yellow lights come on again

It’s Audi.executiveoffice@audi.co.uk

I am really sorry David but I have no axe to grind. I’m requesting FoI date from DVSA and will not let this go. However if you can use what Audi have done for me to improve your situation I am happy to pitch in and help.

Have you written to Mr Doyle at Audi UK, this is the way to get results.

That is also my view that is why I put it out there so anyone else can use my example with Audi UK, if they can do this for one owner they can do the same for everyone. Let’s face it the trauma is the same whether you drive a Q3, RS6 or RSQ8

My RS6 was out of warranty by 3 months, I had no breakdown cover so was exposed. I just made a nuisance of myself writing to Mr Doyle and threatening to write to Audi Germany etc. so I was in the same boat without a paddle as everyone else. I know you should not have to do this but telling Audi UK you are not going quietly got all my costs and a good will settlement so this should be open to everyone.

Just an update for everyone that you must pursue Audi UK and do not give up. Audi UK have now paid for- recovery charges from the breakdown to delivery to Audi Bath a courtesy car while the car was in for repair for 6 days the repair and replacement costs MY EXTENDED WARRANTY PREMIUM FOR 12 MONTHS GOODWILL GESTURE OF £1000 I think it is quite obvious Audi UK know they have a problem and will do what they can to keep customers on side. So do not give up make a lot of noise as there is no reason my treatment should be any different from anyone else.

I think that is a reaction we all have, let’s get out. However that could be out of the frying pan into the fire as most modern cars have their issues. My thoughts have been - I have been through this now understand the warning signs will take immediate action to turn every non essential electrical circuit off and drive to a dealer or safe location. I have a spare alternator in my garage, which I take on continental trips so I can get any competent garage to replace it. That way I am comfortable to manage any future failures.

The fact that thevAA ‘ found not charging’ should be enough to pin point the Alternator.

Well done. Mr Corcoran has responded to my question which he is unable to answer because he trotted out the response he had from Audi, which was probably in very guarded language. He has suggested I submit a Freedom of Information request to the DVSA for the Audi response- which I have done. Watch this space!

Nik, now you have had the fault and know how to deal with it it is not so bad. I still love my RS6 and do not really want to part with it but have a spare alternator which I tske with me on long trips abroad just in case, so I have decided I can live with the issue.

I have confirmed this document with Audi Bath and it is genuine from Audi UK to all dealers as Audi UK are picking up the bill. I have purchased a spare alternator which is sitting in my garage waiting the next failure. Part number A4N1 903 028 B should be the same for all mild hybrid VW/ Audi cars

See DANs post 2 august above

I hhave had a response from the DVSA and have gone back to them with a reply below. The more users who can contact them wit their experences they may get off their back sides. email john.corcoran@dvsa.gov.uk Dear Mr Corcoran, Thank you for your email dated 14 August. If I am to summarise the DVSA only considers safety defects if they comply or not with the ‘the Code’. In your opinion these vehicles have a two stage warning system which is both visual and acoustic which meets type approval under the code. Having experience this failure first hand I should like to explore this two stage warning system in more detail. STAGE ONE 1] What are the visual and audible warnings triggered when the alternator fails to charge? 2] How is the driver informed that the failure is that the alternator is no longer charging the battery? 3] How does this stage warn the driver that continued vehicle use will lead to ‘roll out’ and that he should park the vehicle safely as soon as possible ? 4] How long does Stage One last before Stage Two kicks in? 5] What does ‘the Code’ state is the reasonable warnings and time given to the driver to take action? STAGE TWO 1] What are the visual and acoustic warnings triggered at stage two? 2] How is the driver informed that he is now in Stage Two and this is becoming more critical? 3] How does stage two warn the driver to stop as soon as possible and what is the average time frame between stage two activation and vehicle failure- ‘roll out’ ? 4] What is the Code spec for stage two? Some of the points in your email are incorrect judging from my experience and that of others: You state that 12v battery depletion should support secondary systems such as lighting and steering but in my experience, Stage Two this support depletes in a matter of seconds and the following items become inoperable: Gearbox Handbrake, therefore on a slope the driver cannot exit the vehicle Rear doors being opened from inside if child locks have been engaged or outside as locking automatically engages above 10mph Front doors from outside Tail gate so there is no access to warning triangle You also state that initially the 12v battery should support secondary systems for a period of time allowing the driver to bring the car to a safe stop. In hindsight you are right but at the time the driver does not know what the problem is and what he should do about it beyond contacting his dealer, as advised by the handbook. This frankly is the nub of the matter, but I await your responses to my questions above as I may have missed some warning signs.