Mark2

Unfortunately you are right. The longer this goes on and vehicles drop out of warranty then users will just accept a failure as an older vehicle problem, and Audi will have dodged the bullet. What is so annoying is we have a public body who is there at our expense to safeguard the public sitting on their hands just moving the problem off their desk and into a filing cabinet. If I do not get a positive response from mr Corcoran then next step my MP.

I have had a very speedy response from DVSA which I have copied in below, together with my reply. However it is clear that DVSA need to see more evidence of 48v/12v system failures so i will ask everyone you has contributed to email [email protected] Mr Hayward Thank you for your email and we note your comments. I’m not able to discuss the case referenced but can advise DVSA investigates safety defects within the terms of the Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code), which has the support of the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended). This can be accessed at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-on-vehicle-safety-defects-and-recalls/vehicle-safety-defects-and-recalls-code-of-practice When investigating an allegation of a safety defect DVSA considers any warnings and the immediate impact the defect may have on occupants and the driver’s ability to control the vehicle, bring it to a halt etc. Whereas DVSA has not yet determined a safety defect as defined by the Code, its Market Surveillance Unit continues to monitor reports to collate any additional evidence, and I have added your report to our investigation file. I note your comments on warnings displayed and recommendations. Vehicles sold in the UK must either have European whole vehicle type approval (EWVTA) or certain other recognised approvals. Our understanding is this vehicle fully meets EWVTA and requirements for the UK. However, vehicle type approval is the responsibility of the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) and you may wish to address your concerns on this to them. Their web site address is Homepage - Vehicle Certification Agency (vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk) Thank you Dear Mr Corcoran, Thank you for your speedy response. As much as I understand you are unable to discuss the case I highlighted, it would appear that my experience was a mirror image of that case. From my professional life my understanding is once an electronic system is commissioned its software and firmware will act in exactly the same way for all items so produced, everyone who has Audi cars with this fault will experience the same life threatening failure scenario. I have looked at the Code of Practice and note that DVSA has responsibilities to monitor and investigate issues that affect automotive product safety. Then it is your responsibility to identify potential safety issues and work with the manufactures to rectify such defects. So far so good you are the organisation to look into the defects highlighted by myself and others. However from what you say , so far you have been unable to identify my experience and the experience of others as a ‘safety defect’. Could you please explain how being trapped in an inert vehicle, which could become involved in a shunt or catch fire is NOT a safety defect? If you accept my argument above that once an electronic system has been commissioned then all systems will act in the same way then your being advised of one failure surely will mean that all systems [48v/12 hybrids] will suffer the same failure mode. I note your action is to add my observations to your file. How many similar observations do your need before you act? Do you need someone to be killed on a smart motorway, unable to exit their Audi before you take action? I will try to get all the people I know who have experience the same safety issue as me to write to you. In the meantime I await your response to my questions. Rgds Mark Hayward

Hi David, I am not convinced this is an alternator manufacturing fault as Audi appear to be replacing like for like. My personal opinion is that this starter/generator is being asked to do too much- acting as an alternator one minute and a starter the next. If my hypothesis is right then most failures will be from vehicles who regularly are in stop/start traffic. Either way it does not let Audi off the hook from not having a sensible warning. glad to hear you are getting some of your claim sorted

David,I too have been in touch with the DVSA and have sent them the following today: Dear Lucy, Thank you for your email, I do hope you can forward this to one of your senior Motor Engineers for further investigation. I am aware that DVSA have carried out a preliminary investigation ref 43989 but I feel this lacked serious probing and DVSA appear to have been fobbed off by Audi, who appear to be wanting to sweep this under the carpet. I am attaching the letter I sent to Audi which describes the incident I experience, which has been mirrored by numerous other Audi owners, but I am using your findings in 43989 and addressing those as they need to be probed into. THE MANUFACTURER ADVISES THEY HAVE NO RECORD OF SIMILAR OUTCOMES This statement is untrue. Audi UK have had numerous complaints; however, these complaints are listed by Audi Executive Office as Electrical Issues. They do not break this down into 48/12v Mild Hybrid or alternator issues. So, when you ask for information on a specific topic, they can say they have no records. In March 2024 my local Audi Dealer had repaired 3 vehicles with this alternator failure. There are 1500 VW/Audi dealers in the UK, if they all had the similar number of complaints then this would amount to 4500 vehicles, not an insignificant number. THEY ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY VEHICLE COMING TO AN IMMEDIATE STOP To be fair the vehicle takes about 30 seconds to come to a stop. Various electrical circuits shut down but the driver has no idea what is going on or why. Just that certain things like electric windows and aircon stop working. They say there are a variety of warning messages. However, these warning messages do not tell the driver that the battery is no longer being charged, there are warning messages that the battery has a fault and you should contact the dealer. The problem here is that the car is very power hungry using 12v for everything from lights to operating the gearbox, seats, aircon, etc with no charge going to it, it is not long before there is a catastrophic failure when the driver and his passengers become trapped in an inert vehicle. As you will see from my attached note to Audi there is nothing to tell the driver he is heading into an electrical abyss. When I challenged Audi as to why there was not a ‘battery not being charged’ warning light they told me this was no longer an EU Vehicle Build Standards requirement! LOCKED DOORS If you have operated the Child lock button on the doors, as you would if you regularly travel with children, then when the 12v power dies there is no way to release this and the doors CANNOT be opened from the inside or the outside. Nor can the tail gate door be released to either remove rear passengers or access the warning triangle. This is the most serious system failure. Nor can the parking brake be operated allowing the driver to exit the vehicle. THE REAL ISSUE This is not about a component failure such as the alternator as vehicle components fail all the time and are repaired or replaced. This is about the lack on due diligence by Audi in their design of this 48/12v hybrid system. What Risk Assessment did Audi do in their design of their electrical warning system? Did they consider that failure of the 12v system could immobilise the vehicle with very little warning and put driver and passengers’ safety at risk? What are Audi going to do about changing the system software so that better warnings are given, as suggested in my attached letter?

Is this your letter to AA Legal Services ?if so I am an AA member and have settled with Audi so my taking this up would not jeopardise any claim. Would you like me to do that ?

Been thinking overnight that if it is possible to rig a car up with a switch which turns off the alternator charge to simulate its failure then we make a video of what actually happens the car slowly falling apart until nothing electrical works . This could be published on YouTube and we may even get a consumer rights programme to pick it up. Audi could hardly deny a visual of the problem. Does anyone know a mechanic who could fit an alternator isolation switch?

It is clear that Audi are burying their heads and not recognising the issues. It’s just like Boeing or Fujitsu- close ranks guys in the hope this will go away. Frankly I do not know where to go from here. Flabbergasted.

Very happy to help and contact Which but do we want to use the same subject or make our own subject so they are additional cases?

I think you should fight this considering there are a number of us with cars out of warranty where Audi have paid the labour. In my case they paid the recovery charges £300 plus cost of repair and labour plus a courtesy car for a week. Don’t let them off the hook.

Very happy to help and glad you got the right outcome BUT it should not be an individual fight. There should be a National if not a world policy on this from Audi AG. The more I hear about their lack of customer care the more damage they are doing to the brand.

I tried to get motoring journalists interested but guess what, they do no want to !Removed! their pitch with Audi as they may not be asked to review new cars. That is their income forget about the customer being in danger!

I picked up my spare alternator from Bath Audi yesterday and it’s part number is 4N1-903-028-B interesting thst it is one digit different. Makes me wonder if this has been upgraded ?

Hi 88Rs6 My RS6 was 3 months out of warranty and had this problem but perseverance with Audi UK and my dealer got it replaced for free plus cost of recovery plus hire car. I now have a spare Alternator in my garage ready to use if it happens again.

mikeyw you are right but low battery occurs once you have used up its capacity . So if you are driving with the heated seats on, the aircon, etc out is not long after re charging fails that you get low bat. If you had a no charge red light then you would turn off anything yiu did not need and limp off the motorway or to somewhere safe,

It’s not s much that the alternator fails as these things happen. The real failure is the fact there is no warning light to tell you the battery is no longer being charged. The reason Audi gave me for that was ‘ it is no longer a European Directive requirement’. No one at Audi has gone through the ‘ what if scenarios’ , no one has done a risk assessment of what would happen if the driver is not told the battery is no longer being charged. If they had someone would have worked out - catastrophic failure! ! ! This is designed negligence.

David you may be lucky and the replacement only last 18 months, in which case you will be quids in! Some hope.

MikeW the 7 year extended warranty is from the date of the cars registration.

There are 143 posts in this site on this topic. More than any other topic. How do we get anyone with any influence to take notice?

Great now we have Mon Motors with a number of cases. My car is 3 years old, the guy who is on the ball at Bath Audi is Simon Gray and he has helped customers who have vehicles in Bristol. you are right the dealer attitude is ‘ not my problem guv’ this is an Audi design problem we just sell them! Can I contact Audi Germany- yiu can but they will refer it back to the UK - whi have nothing to do with the design! hence the need to get a group action.

FOI worth a try.

I am sorry to say that Audi have closed their ears to this. They are just dealing with individual complaints because we have no cohesive group. I have tried to get Consumer Rights interested but they are not probably because no one has died and it’s such a niche problem. Beyond the 7 year extn all I can get in terms of compensation is their agreeing to pay 1 year extended Warranty. if anyone who knows a lawyer who would be willing to take a class action get them to contact us.

Your fault sequence absolutely mirrors the one on my RS6. I too have decided, having gone through this once I have bought at my expense a spare alternator, which I will carry with me, next time this fault sequence starts it’s an AA recovery to any old garage and they can replace the alternator then Audi can replace the faulty one so I always have a spare.

Sorry to hear another tale of woe. Audi told me they no longer have a ‘no charge’ warning lamp as it is no longer a European requirement. Another law made up by some bureaucrat in Brussels who goes to work on a bike.

Audi uk have also extended the warranty to 7 years from date of registration so do not let your dealer fob you off.

Mine failed and my Audi Service partner has told me that they are keeping the records and have confirmed to me in writing that my car has an extended warranty on this part for 7 years from the date of registration. It is covered as long as they do the work.