RSW

Reading the response sadly but not unsurprisingly it looks like the Audi have carefully crafted responses to dodge the key issues whilst of course being legally accurate and defendable. As one would expect the lawyers will have been all over the language used (married to one and work with a team of them in the PR group of the business I am in, so recognise the language). They have hidden behind easy to say and defendable things like “not aware of identical cases” “…no record of identical outcomes” not aware of … coming to an immediate stop”, “continued use may…”, “…should support”. I will have a more detailed trawl through this in coming days and offer some questions that may be useful for you David in pushing back on DVSA. Frustratingly predictable, this is how many big companies grind this stuff out

Thats infuriating David, almost impossible not to become incredibly cynical about the ineptitude, intransigence and non-consumer orientated nature of some of these organisations that are supposed to protect consumers interests and safety. Utter nonsense from the DVSA

Look after yourself, collisions are traumatic on a number of levels and the psychological effects are often overlooked compared to the physical. Hope you are feeling better soon and get a long run of no motoring issues or incidents at all, you’re certainly due that!

Only just noticed the crash part of your post David, dreadful, genuinely hope you’re ok.

That’s great, thanks Audi Death Trap, I’m hopeful they will react to this. Worth a try!

Thanks Mark2, good question, the subject line is how they ask for feedback so Hannah Downes is the car repair lead researcher they list as the contact for the helpwanted@which.co.uk address. They request that her name is in the Subject line (guess it makes it easier to fwd to her). i only put Audi MHEV alternator in the subject title because of its role, but your suggestion makes good sense, I would just ensure Hannah’s name and Audi figure in the subject title. I imagine there are some to the point titles some of you can use given your experiences “Audi death trap” etc. I am keen for Hannah to see there are plenty of real examples linked to this component failure, the limited seemingly unrelated system warnings prior as the 12v battery depletes and the risk it posed once the 12v battery was depleted, followed by a broad spectrum of experiences with the dealers and Audi UK and in your example an entirely sensible development request around a warning mechanism. I have provided them with more info and explained there are people willing to share their experiences, I’m hoping if some of you email in this way then it’s harder to ignore lots of additional cases being raised. I have told them I would be asking those that have experienced this to share that with them. It is possible they will ask for a Which member ID, if you don’t have one I would just say a which member asked you to share your experience of this issue (as that’s what I told them) and that your considering joining / looking for a serious consumer rights champion. I am keen to up the pressure and get a decent consumer rights champion asking the right questions and raising its profile publicly so all help welcomed.

Steph1234 and DADSQ7 sorry to hear about these, awful - Steph 1234 you must be completely done on this issue. Per earlier posts I have been pushing with Which for a while now and have started emailing them every few days to try and keep the pressure up. Hopefully not a waste of time. . . Could I ask that some of you who are happy to share your experiences and ongoing issues send an email as follows: To: helpwanted@which.co.uk cc: which@which.co.uk Subject: “Hannah Downes, Audi MHEV Alternator ” Please reference the MHEV 48/12v alternator failure, your experience of it and the journey with the dealership, Audi UK etc. Mark2, Steph1234, Audi Deathtrap, MikeyW, Cally, DADSQ7, Enthusiast 07, RKaur and many more, it would be great if all of you could do this as it might help raise its profile and speed up Which’s response. Appreciate it could go nowhere but as I’m chasing every few days it may add some weight.

Congrats 88-RS6 glad to hear they finally decided to do the right thing in spite of their initial efforts not to. Looks like the time you spent putting together a compelling position and the help from Mark2 and MileyW was well worth it!

Mark2 that’s frustrating to hear though to your point not unsurprising given the conflict of interest, still you would hope somebody in that journalistic cohort would have remembered where they had put their moral compass. The pace on getting this broader air time given the nature of the danger it represents is remains very disappointing. Per earlier posts I am still pushing on Which to take this up with Audi. I’m hopeful they are going to publish something though getting confirmation on what and when remains conspicuous through absence. I have emphasised that it feels like a disaster waiting to happen with customers and other road users being put in significant danger when their cars shut down. I have also highlighted that there are plenty of customers willing to share their experiences on this and similar forums. I have also asked them to push Audi UK for comment on a number of key questions which include among others: 1. What volume of MHEV 48v/12v alternator failures have they experienced over the past 3-4 years across the ranges in which that system is fitted and how that compares to standard expected component in life fault rates 2. Whether or not Audi UK / Group have identified the root cause for the failure and whether or not the replacement when fitted applies a full fix or simply a like for like swap (even if component is a different SKU number) which is prone to the same failure. 3. Whether or not they have advised all U.K. dealerships of the 7 year warranty extension on the MHEV 48v/12v alternator component? It appears to be a complete lottery for customers who experience this with Audi dealerships giving completely variable responses and from what I have seen, only those who persistently chase the Audi UK Exec office getting any kind of support. 4. Why Audi U.K. won’t push the central Audi group for the development of at least a clear on dash warning when the 12v battery is no longer being charged (i.e MHEV alternator has failed) to turn off non essential electronics (AC, stop start etc) to maximise life of remaining 12v battery charge and to get to safety before the 12v battery is fully depleted and shuts the car down completely. I know this has sensibly been requested by a customer directly but doesn’t appear to be a priority in any way. Will keep pushing on this - fingers crossed it’s not a waste of effort.

Thanks Audi Death Trap, if they ask will list yours as an example to follow up. I read your posts, sounded a dreadful experience. I think you did the right thing getting it published to raise awareness and send Audi a message. Seems like Audi are allowing unsuspecting customers to play Russian roulette with their safety with respect to this component failure, while they play down its significance and even in face of sensible requests to develop a warning (like Mark2 raised) point to EVs as focus not older designs etc. Everything I have read about the failure (some imply coolant leak, some component chip being overheated - potentially linked to former) and replacement, including the technical reviews suggests (can’t be sure) it’s a like for like replacement even if the part number varies by generational reference. Seems plausible they haven’t got a true root cause or at least if they have they don’t have a component level fix (or do but don’t want to develop test and deploy with the sub component supplier) and are just hoping to cover it via like for like swap under the extended warranty, letting customers shoulder the dreadful experience, subsequent hassle and leg work. I suspect in the end they will have to do something, but sadly it won’t be because it was the right thing to do, it will be because they received enough pressure and at some point decide to protect brand/sales/ manage litigation costs etc. Just hoping it isn’t because someone gets seriously hurt. Good luck with DVSA

Hello I am hoping Which’s Car Editorial team are looking into this now. I don’t know if it will lead to anything but if they do take it further and ask for examples can I assume that some of you are happy to consider providing further details (for example Steph1234, Mark2, Audi Death Trap, CSMT, Worried of Yorkshire, SteveHBerkshire, 88RS6 etc?). If Which start asking Audi UK well informed questions on this issue, the way in which it can unfold and the danger it can represent it may add some additional pressure to Audi to do something more proactive and safety orientated (like a proper warning with clear guidance when 12v charging stops). Worth a push. As an aside 88-RS6, as far as I’m aware the 7yr warranty on the MHEV alternator component on your RS6 should be covered - would keep pushing (Mark2 and others here have managed to with effort, on their RS6s)

On all of the other related threads I have seen, including some of the independent technical analysis of the fault there has been no indication that the component when replaced is materially different, I think the part number changed slightly but analysis of that implied it was fundamentally the same system part(s). I am inclined to agree with Mark2, whether its something about the design and implementation around the system and the load upon it that causes it to eventually fail and or a design flaw within the component that with constant loading results at some point in a failure of its ability to charge the 12v battery, it simply doesn't look like Audi intend to proactively identify the true root cause(s) and implement a fix upon which a recall is initiated. It seems they have taken the path (think this was discussed further back in the thread) of letting the customers and dealerships deal with the issue at point of failure and simply replace the part under an extended warranty scheme. No doubt they will have some level of contractual coverage with the component supplier themselves. It's plausible as they focus more on their ev range that they don't want to put time and money on a system and component set that may be considered part of vehicle ranges they will ultimately sunset (speculation only, but plausible). Of course the issue with that is that ultimately it is the consumer that suffers the consequences. They may be able to currently defend their position by pointing to an extended warranty and willingness to repair, but if someone gets hurt or worse as a consequence of being put in harms way by this failure then I suspect things will change very quickly. Will be interesting to see how the class action in the US unfolds and what follows that. MikeyW, regarding the question of whether they fix the issue when replacing the component, the burden of evidence kicking around would imply that they don't. Seems they replace it like for like, inadvertently resetting the countdown for when it will re-occur and there are some theories out their on how to extend that time such as disabling the stop-start each journey via engine sport modes etc. Earlier this year I asked for confirmation as to whether they had identified the root cause and identified an appropriate fix (as opposed to like for replacement) to this specific failure in writing as a condition of completing a purchase of a C8 with one of the largest Audi dealerships in the UK and they wouldn't do it as they said Audi UK didn't recognise it as an issue requiring recall or otherwise. Predictably I was fobbed off with the usual " it is rare and we haven't seen many'. Sadly that it is why I cancelled mine. If interested in the new performance version (a beauty!), if it were me, as a condition of sale I would ask the dealer to confirm in writing via Audi UK that they have changed the implementation and or component in a way that fixes the root cause of the failure. I don't think they will do that, but it is worth a go.

Hello Mikey W, sorry to hear that you’ve endured this fault multiple times, but glad you have managed to get to safety on each occasion. Sounds like Mark2 in so far as you now know what to do when the early warning signs arise, seems insane that this is something that has to be back of mind on what in many respects is meant to be one of their flagship vehicles. Having watched a Panorama programme on our Smart Motorways yesterday (not Smart just deadly it seems!) it continues to alarm me that this is a dangerous fault when coupled with the above. Audi need to be doing more as you will have seen discussed in above posts. i haven’t seen anything on other related forum threads yet that indicates the replacement repair is a root cause fix, so likely it is simply a like for like replacement. Sounds to me like you should be pushing for a much more suitable vehicle and via Audi UK and asking them to sort that immediately. Ultimately Audi UK know this is an issue and should if pursued react more empathetically to assist you with a replacement vehicle etc. I believe Mark2 has had some success with Audi UK in getting a better response support wise while the car is off the road being repaired etc Good luck

Think I would be taking a similar view to you Mark2 if I was in one already particularly given the cars capabilities and aesthetics and the understanding you now have of the early signs of the issue and what to do. Feel for those out there who won’t. Before I decided to cancel I did look at getting an in car OBD scanner to surface a status on the 12v battery via a mobile app, through to having a 12v back up unit. What swung it for me in the end in part was the disappointing (sadly not unsurprising) response from Audi to very considered and sensible asks from folks like yourself, Cally and others on similar threads. It was also the thought that if it did happen the repair if like for like wouldn’t signal the end of it. I think that’s what made me decide against in the end. Still gutted every time I see one - fine looking car, impressive capabilities! I guess key at this point is to keep the pressure up on Audi - they owe it existing and future customers to step up and sort this. Having seen their responses to you (genuinely thanks for sharing) and others, I now don’t believe they will take the initiative and tackle this until it gets broadcast air time with a consumer rights protection group. My only hope is that it isn’t a tragic incident that crystallises such coverage and a material response. Will let you know what comes of the Which dialogue.

Barron - that’s largely how I came across this thread. I had reserved an RS6 C8 to replace my RS4. The evening before I was due to go in and complete the paper work I was looking at recalls for the model and started seeing threads in the US about this MHEV 48/12 v related issue and the class action lawsuit. I came across this thread and asked Mark2 about his experience and whether Audi were fixing it or replacing like for like. Mark2 was kind enough to keep sharing his journey with Audi on this issue and as you can see it’s not been an easy one, with the most common theme being one of no clear and decisive responses to clear questions from the likes of Mark2 and Cally. Agree on the echo chamber point, I was mindful of that so did pay for independent advice from two working Audi technicians and while they were careful in what they said they both indicated they had seen quite a few examples on a number of different models with this system including the RS6 C8. They both thought it was a bigger issue than was being acknowledged by Audi UK albeit the 7year warranty extension speaks for itself. Recently after seeing many more examples of this on other threads and the unwillingness of Audi to act I cancelled my order as I couldn’t have driven my kids on any of the “smart motorways” that surround where we live with the spectre of this issue in the back of my mind. Mindful failures happen, punctures, blow outs etc but this issue and they way it unfolds in terms of car shut down once the 12v battery is depleted is just too potentially dangerous especially with how it affects simple things like hazards and central locking etc. I did ask the main dealer to provide a clarification on the fault, any plans for root cause fix / recall but they were dismissive and played it down. For what it’s worth a lot of vehicles now have this mild hybrid set up to help meet emissions regs. No idea if it’s failing in similar ways on equivalent BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches etc or just a particularly bad implementation in the Audi. On my searches I have read a few tech reviews on the failure that point to it being a coolant leak inside system as well as certain key circuit board components getting cooked - not sure if that’s linked to poor heat sink design or inadequate cooling, or the coolant leak leading to component failure through heat etc. I have also looked at the M3 touring and couldn’t see the same issue in my searches but I am very mindful that the G81 hasn’t been on the road as long as the C8. As much as I love the RS4 and wanted the C8 the M3 touring G81 is likely the path I’ll take.